A plea for RNG and proc based gameplay

[Roda]

I don't think every job should have a proc, but I do think every role should have reactive (whether proc or rng based) gameplay options. so +1 on there.
We still have rdm, brd, mnk, and dnc. I could see maybe adding something to rpr, drk, war, and some back into ast and blm.

[Rithy255]

It's odd that Crit/Dh plays so much importance in your jobs, but fun interesting RNG is seeing a heavy "decline"

It's funny how what I consider bad RNG is being ignored and even more enforced by big High potencies which lead to more instances of Crit/Dh RNG, While interesting RNG Such as Procs or Cards, which yeah can impact your damage, are being removed and slowly less impactful...

Personally I hope "bad" rng gets slowly lowered while we can have room for more fun and interesting RNG that actually changes how moment to moment gameplay can change.

[Mikey_R]

I don't think every job should have a proc, but I do think every role should have reactive (whether proc or rng based) gameplay options. so +1 on there.
We still have rdm, brd, and dnc. I could see maybe adding something to mnk, rpr, drk, war, and some back into ast and blm.

MNK already has RNG in it's Chakra system and I don't think it needs more.

[Roda]

MNK already has RNG in it's Chakra system and I don't think it needs more.

ur so right nvm on that lol

[Isurith]

I don't think every job should have a proc, but I do think every role should have reactive (whether proc or rng based) gameplay options. so +1 on there.
We still have rdm, brd, and dnc. I could see maybe adding something to mnk, rpr, drk, war, and some back into ast and blm.

Please, no.

Add new jobs with RNG systems as much as you want, but don't force it on the jobs that actually has none.

Not everyone like that. I'd really hate having to wait for procs on RPR.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

The problem with rng in job rotations, is that if it's built in a way like old hw Mch, it's just.... Not fun.

Sure, people doing basic content might enjoy it, and maybe people at the highest end of raiding. But casual raiders will likely hate it, because rng for them can be the difference between a clear or a wipe.

[Azlith]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but every rotation is technically a priority based rotation, the difference is how often you have to change your priority.

What is Dragoon's priority? Keeping your damage buff and DoT up. This is why you start with Chaotic Spring combo, then use Heaven's Thrust combo, then back to Chaotic Spring etc. The only time this will change is if you disengage from a boss and so the timer's suddenly don't line up as nicely. You then have to make an on the fly decision as to what to prioritise.

Paladin has no RNG in it's rotation, however, it is also described as a priority rotation, where the priority is flipped when you go into burst.

As for what have called 'priority based rotations', which is just RNG procs changing things more often, it basically boils down to, press the shiny, unless it is to be saved for burst. But every job pools resources for burst, so it is hardly ground-breaking.

You might be new to the mmo genre. For a very long time in the mmo scene there are what is referred to as "priority based rotations" and rigid or "static rotations". A priority based rotation sees you following a list of priorities from top to bottom. You have to actually parse the information on screen, understand it and make decisions based on what you are seeing. A static rotation sees you preforming a never changing rotation of abilities, a rotation in the truest sense of the word.

A priority based system does not have to be as simple as "hit the shiny button" and save resources for burst. A well made system will see you spinning several plates in the forms of buffs, debuffs, dots, cooldowns (of different lengths not all the same with some taking precedence over others so you have to make smart decisions on how you enter those cd windows,) procs, movement vs standing still, 1 target, 2 target, 3 target, 4+ targets and many other factors. In FF14, especially in DT, most jobs follow a static rotation model. I can map out every gcd of any given encounter and follow that exact gcd map to the end of the fight to do optimal dmg. That map for that encounter will never change (unless you factor in a targeted kill time which again you can just make another gcd map for) and deviating from that map will result in a dps loss. You can never do this with a priority based system which is why I find them to be more engaging. Oh and no you didn't "burst my bubble" lol.

[Rithy255]

The problem with rng in job rotations, is that if it's built in a way like old hw Mch, it's just.... Not fun.

Sure, people doing basic content might enjoy it, and maybe people at the highest end of raiding. But casual raiders will likely hate it, because rng for them can be the difference between a clear or a wipe.

Almost like we already have something like that, that doesn't even effect Gameplay... whats it called... oh yeah critical hit and direct hit why is crit/dh fine but small gameplay RNG (that's actually fun) not?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Almost like we already have something like that, that doesn't even effect Gameplay... whats it called... oh yeah critical hit and direct hit why is crit/dh fine but small gameplay RNG (that's actually fun) not?

Because crit/dh is much less of an impact than say, your entire combos not proccing because of RNG. I don't see how not being able to actually play your job is fun. Maybe you get dopamine hits off of that one time everything goes perfectly, but the rest of the time it's just depressing.


There's a massive difference. Plus, I dislike the crit/dh reliance we are stuck in and think they need to change it.

[Jeeqbit]

On why he's removed randomness from jobs:

This is the result of focusing on making tactics more stable while still leaving room for innovation. For example, up to Patch 6.X, the damage efficiency of the Thunder magic Proc effects will decrease unless you use them at the very end of the original debuff effect time, but the specifications are very difficult for beginners to understand in the first place.

it comes down to "Once you've mastered the basics, how can you add your own ideas from there?" In the astrologian's case, "which card to use, when, and for whom" depends on the party and content, so randomness has not been completely eliminated. You can draw a set of four cards every 60 seconds, so you can choose which cards at which timing, such as by using cards with recovery effects to create opportunities for attacks. That judgment is where you can show off your skills as an astrologer. In this way, while reducing the randomness caused by random numbers, we have intentionally adjusted the areas where player skill is important to be wide-ranging.

The aim is to reduce the importance of so-called "synergy combinations" in battle. If synergy alignment is placed at the center of the timeline, everyone will end up with similar skill rotations, and above all, the individuality of each job will be diminished. In feedback from players, we've heard many say they don't want job performance to be evened out any further, and I'm also the type of person who feels it's more fun to have a different gaming experience for each player.

With this in mind, we placed emphasis on a format in which "we prepare a base movement for each job, and then individuals can devise ways to suit the content.'" The same reason is why we increased the duration of damage reduction actions. You can now use it much in advance of the enemy's moves, so I think using it before the controls get busy will give you time to take a closer look at the gimmick. This policy also has benefits for the development team, and by giving the player more leeway, we can come up with innovative ideas. Therefore, I hope we can find a good compromise that will be a win-win for both parties.

So Yoshi-P explained that RNG is being removed so that it can be more skill based and also on BLM for example procs were being pushed right to the end of the rotation and were only just barely optimal at certain points, which new players may not be aware of.

He explained AST saying it would make it more skill based and argued there is already some RNG, which is the party makeup and their needs.

They also said in the last live letter that they had a lot of feedback saying they like the RNG but also a lot of feedback saying they don't like the RNG.