Bring Back Kaiten

[ThorneDynasty]

You say "accessibility", but, no really, who was the Kaiten removal for? The turbocasuals who don't bother with any other basic mechanics of their jobs either? Like all the Dragoons who do only-single target in +80 dungeons. Or the tanks who've never heard of interrupts or having sprint on their hotbar. Or the Samurai you still never see using Higanbana. Yeah, those were clearing normal content just fine not having a care in the world. You can't dumb these jobs down enough to make everyone a good player, life finds a way. Was the idea that somehow Kaiten was the thing gatekeeping them from becoming savage raiders?

So why does matter if it was "too hard" for casual players to use Kaiten? It certainly wasn't for players actually engaging in content where performance mattered.

And even if it did cause some huge damage discrepancy under certain conditions - Why not just tone down the damage boost instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, like these devs love to do all the time, for some reason?

[Pavise]

Kaiten wasn't competing with Shinten or Kyuten. Shinten and Kyuten were Excess Kenki Dumps + Kaiten being a 20 Kenki Spender also increased Kenki Usage over Shinten's/Kyuten's 25 Kenki.
Which is why Samurai now has less Kenki Interaction. Kinda like how they removed positionals from Monk, when you think about it. Which thinking also being reduced when your positionals are only at the Combo Enders aswell as Kenki being utilized just for burst..[/B]

They effectively were competing for the exact same resource, both were off global uses for it especially with Kaiten's CD reduction to 1s. Kaiten's PPK (Potency per Kenki) was just tuned higher for your Iajutsu casts so you hit a different button before using them.

Here's the thing, job guage interaction does not need to be anything further than a driver for a spender. The baseline rotation already takes up every single ounce of GCD space. The Job Guage is not there to give you multiple buttons to play with it's design is generally based around giving you something extra to manage throughout an encounter that's different from your main rotation, for Samurai it's a driver for oGCD attacks through Shiten and Kyuten.

This feeds into the Samurai fantasy of a blademaster who strikes calmly and precisely at the right moment (Iajutsu), while also having the speed in executing additional attacks when they see an opening (Shinten/Kyuten).

Also Kaiten wasn't complex, it was fun.. and what are you talking about Shinten/Kyute having casts? Everyone can do Iaijutsu, but only masters have those 20 Kenki to boost the big hitters even bigger! That was the Deal of the Samurai and if you didn't like that, you in turn didn't like Samurai.[/B]

Fun is entirely subjective, the fact that it was removed means it wasn't fun to others, the feedback that SE heard regarding the job itself.

Being hyperbolic in basically saying "IF YOU DONT LIKE BUTTER YOU MUST HATE POPCORN", someone can clearly like popcorn without liking butter.

If SE would've cared they could've changed Kaiten to make the following weaponskill direct hit, suddenly Samurai would've leaned even further into the Self Heavy Hitter DPS than ever before, instead of "Hey! just do your lvl50 Rotation and pepper in some Shinten here and there, gg"

Kaiten on the otherhand just but a Spin on the basic Samurai Rotation that made it fun forever. But if SE would've used feedback correctly.. how do you explain Summoner?^^[/B]

A dev team not designing how you want them to =/= them not caring. Realistically they see a lot more metrics regarding the game that you or I will never have access to so usually when they make certain changes it's not on a whim but usually data driven.

How that Data then converts to an enjoyable gameplay experience tends to differ per attempt at reacting to feedback.

Summoner is a different kettle of fish entirely and by some accounts the rework for it is highly praised and has seen a growth in it's playerbase relative to previous incarnations, on the other hand some people think it's the brussel sprouts of gameplay.

You'll never be able to make everyone happy, the aim is usually a medium between both camps when it comes to game design.

You say "accessibility", but, no really, who was the Kaiten removal for? The turbocasuals who don't bother with any other basic mechanics of their jobs either? Like all the Dragoons who do only-single target in +80 dungeons. Or the tanks who've never heard of interrupts or having sprint on their hotbar. Or the Samurai you still never see using Higanbana. Yeah, those were clearing normal content just fine not having a care in the world. You can't dumb these jobs down enough to make everyone a good player, life finds a way. Was the idea that somehow Kaiten was the thing gatekeeping them from becoming savage raiders?

So why does matter if it was "too hard" for casual players to use Kaiten? It certainly wasn't for players actually engaging in content where performance mattered.

And even if it did cause some huge damage discrepancy under certain conditions - Why not just tone down the damage boost instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, like these devs love to do all the time, for some reason?

Have you proof read your post? Or did you decide to just dribble some hyperbolic vitriol and think it made you sound cool?

While it is true you can't make something foolproof because there is always a bigger fool out there. What makes you think it's only casuals who didn't care for Kaiten and fedback their distaste for it over the years to SE? They take in multiple channels of feedback (mostly from JP).

As for why Kaiten wasn't reduced in potency? For one simple reason my dude. Potency per Kenki, which makes it so you want to press abilities over others. Reducing it's contribution and leaving it in was not on the cards due to it would have an adverse effect on Shinten, Kyuten, Guren and Senei.

[Rozeee]

While it is true you can't make something foolproof because there is always a bigger fool out there. What makes you think it's only casuals who didn't care for Kaiten and fedback their distaste for it over the years to SE? They take in multiple channels of feedback (mostly from JP).

I don't have a horse in this race as I don't play SAM, but at least within the forums JP also wants kaiten back. Quite vocally too compared to their usual feedback.

[Pavise]

I don't disagree there's a vocal minority at all asking for it back, but people need to realise that the game forums are not a proper representation of the whole player base as it is only a minute fraction of the playerbase that even uses it.

Feedback is collected from many sources before it is actioned.