Jobs feel pretty much complete with Dawntrail no?

[MagiusNecros]

I'd prefer meaningful passive traits over skills if the skills amount to "another fireball, another dragon, another explosion, another oGCD heal". Jobs as a whole need to be restructured when it comes to playing in sub 50 content. Jobs are stunted when you play that content. It's so bad. They need to think about that instead of designing everything around level cap.

Really hope it isn't "your job all comes together at level 100" and "your job sucks to play at every level until you hit 96".

[HikariKurosawa]

I'd prefer meaningful passive traits over skills if the skills amount to "another fireball, another dragon, another explosion, another oGCD heal". Jobs as a whole need to be restructured when it comes to playing in sub 50 content. Jobs are stunted when you play that content. It's so bad. They need to think about that instead of designing everything around level cap.

Really hope it isn't "your job all comes together at level 100" and "your job sucks to play at every level until you hit 96".

I agree, I think the changes coming in dawntrail are a perfect moment for them to step back from the top end of job design and really focus on the early game experience for once. They have a great finished product, but the buildup to it is lacking and roulettes or other forms of synched content are a huge part of the game experience even for someone who is fully leveled.

This on top of what I said about shifting the focus to encounter design would make the game much better than putting so many resources into further developing and rebalancing the top end of job design. Lots of work goes into it and they have to be really considerate about game balance. If they stepped away from that who knows what they could do with the rest of the game and the new jobs that are sure to be added.

Complete isn't the word I would use.

I would use the word rigid, and that is not a good thing.

It's not a good thing in your opinion and that's fine. For everyone who wants non-standard rotations and flexibility there are tons of others who prefer working toward mastery of a rigid rotation. There is a huge part of the community that is a really big fan of how well designed the rotations are and how much goes into mastering the patterns that exist. It all goes together sensibly and that's pretty cool.

[MagiusNecros]

I agree, I think the changes coming in dawntrail are a perfect moment for them to step back from the top end of job design and really focus on the early game experience for once. They have a great finished product, but the buildup to it is lacking and roulettes or other forms of synched content are a huge part of the game experience even for someone who is fully leveled.

This on top of what I said about shifting the focus to encounter design would make the game much better than putting so many resources into further developing and rebalancing the top end of job design. Lots of work goes into it and they have to be really considerate about game balance. If they stepped away from that who knows what they could do with the rest of the game and the new jobs that are sure to be added.

Based on the info we have I don't think it's gonna happen Cap'n. Much like with the initial job reveals and the Picto/Viper demos they are sticking with the 2 minute meta and I'm not seeing much deviation from that. In addition to them making a series of role changes that further simplify combat as well as them saying they will focus on "Job Identity" in 8.0 when Identity has been an issue since Shadowbringers.

The whole "we hear you but aren't going to change anything for 3 years" just isn't a good answer.

But these are the devs that took 6 years to flip a switch on Living Dead so I don't have a lot of optimism on what they say.

I'm hoping we learn a little more when Media Tour ends.

I think players would be more agreeable if the devs were more transparent about combat encounters in the future(and please add midcore content/fights please) as well as where job design per each class is headed.

Communicating with your players is absolutely key in a MMO.

FFXIV took more risks during the HW/SB period. Starting with ShB things have been getting pretty bad with combat design.

I ran through the reworked Ascian Prime fight and it was just a Endwalker combat encounter reskin. More cinematic but less engaging. Seeing the same DPS check at the end of every new fight is a bit jarring.

I'm really hoping the writing for DT is better then EW. EW left a sour taste in my mouth.

But we will see.

[HikariKurosawa]

Snip

They do communicate lots though, and I personally see no problems with the 2 minute meta. Everyone is working toward playing in synch with each other it feels great when it goes right and it's a clearly defined tempo. The times between buff windows enable the encounters to be mechanic heavy in certain moments and give us time to pop off when our buffs are in alignment with the encounter's tempo.

I wouldn't want it any other way personally, but it's fair enough to not want it that way.

I don't really feel that they haven't been transparent about their game though. They do live letters all the time and communicate way more than they should be expected to. Look at how little the WoW team communicates at blizzard.

Taking risks isn't necessarily a good thing either. I think they know what they want to create at this point and they are just polishing it further and further. The people who are unhappy will likely continue to be unhappy because they want something different than what the devs want to create for themselves.

I like endwalker combat encounter design, and it makes sense that the new encounters are like that because it is what they have settled on as their game design. Why wouldn't it be consistent with what they've arrived at currently since it was produced at the same time period?

For me I loved the writing of endwalker MSQ but to each their own, it's another subjective matter.

We will see for sure, I just feel a lot of people want this game to be something that it isn't going to become and it's better to unsubscribe and move on if you're not happy with what the devs have created. Life is honestly too short for that behavior.

[IDontPetLalas]

They do communicate lots though, and I personally see no problems with the 2 minute meta. Everyone is working toward playing in synch with each other it feels great when it goes right and it's a clearly defined tempo. The times between buff windows enable the encounters to be mechanic heavy in certain moments and give us time to pop off when our buffs are in alignment with the encounter's tempo.

I wouldn't want it any other way personally, but it's fair enough to not want it that way.

I don't really feel that they haven't been transparent about their game though. They do live letters all the time and communicate way more than they should be expected to. Look at how little the WoW team communicates at blizzard.

Taking risks isn't necessarily a good thing either. I think they know what they want to create at this point and they are just polishing it further and further. The people who are unhappy will likely continue to be unhappy because they want something different than what the devs want to create for themselves.

I like endwalker combat encounter design, and it makes sense that the new encounters are like that because it is what they have settled on as their game design. Why wouldn't it be consistent with what they've arrived at currently since it was produced at the same time period?

For me I loved the writing of endwalker MSQ but to each their own, it's another subjective matter.

We will see for sure, I just feel a lot of people want this game to be something that it isn't going to become and it's better to unsubscribe and move on if you're not happy with what the devs have created. Life is honestly too short for that behavior.

Interesting take actually 2- let's look at this part "Taking risks isn't necessarily a good thing either. I think they know what they want to create at this point and they are just polishing it further and further. The people who are unhappy will likely continue to be unhappy because they want something different than what the devs want to create for themselves."

I would disagree, taking risks should be part of what Square does. That doesn't mean doing so blindly, without discussion or or some evaluation- however until the game is in our hands their decisions are going to involve risk. This goes to the second point - the "devs" are not creating the game for themselves, but for us. Sure, they should take pride in what they create, but they are not the intended audience- we are.