Combat system is beyond saving.

[Supersnow845]

I must say I disagree. FFXIV never focused on making complex damage rotations - in order to load that complexity on the content.

If the rotations were difficult then the fights themselves can't be complex, reducing the fun aspect of them.

The combat system is deceptively complex and demands perfect execution and optimization in order to compensate for mistakes that happen elsewhere, with harder fights having less room for that.

Damage optimization while doing raid mechanics and coordinating with party is where the challenge is, not the individual aspect of your character.

Bomb Logic, not Sword Logic.

Except there is basically no compensation or correction anymore (same as there is basically no triage healing) you do the dance or you blow up. P12 is god awful for this.

It also reduces the solution down to a single way to solve it. Think coils, their mechanics are way more simple but they have 10,000 ways to solve them in order to change your optimisation flow. Do you overshield allagen field and then release more towers quicker to get an easier next phase, do you bane tech the eggs which skips the enrage but makes juggling FOF in the corner harder, do you solve leafstorm with an LB3 or do the dance, who baits the renalds

With super chain is 1 solution and if you get it wrong we all blow up. That raid design gets so stale because your optimisation is already done by a spreadsheet you just have to execute it

[TBerry]

Except there is basically no compensation or correction anymore (same as there is basically no triage healing) you do the dance or you blow up. P12 is god awful for this.

It also reduces the solution down to a single way to solve it. Think coils, their mechanics are way more simple but they have 10,000 ways to solve them in order to change your optimisation flow. Do you overshield allagen field and then release more towers quicker to get an easier next phase, do you bane tech the eggs which skips the enrage but makes juggling FOF in the corner harder, do you solve leafstorm with an LB3 or do the dance, who baits the renalds

With super chain is 1 solution and if you get it wrong we all blow up. That raid design gets so stale because your optimisation is already done by a spreadsheet you just have to execute it

Why does eberything always have tio be a competition?

[ReynTime]

Why does eberything always have tio be a competition?

Nothing to do with "competition". It's called "player expression". A term that is alien to anyone who joined after 2018 and who never played any of the hundreds of video games where character rosters, abilities and builds exist. Being able to defeat an enemy or a boss more than 1 way without doing any exploit is a welcome flexibility that doesn't take ANYTHING away from people who don't care about that level of expression.
This exists in many games, even offline FFs, and is part of why those games feel fun to play.

[Supersnow845]

Why does eberything always have tio be a competition?

Literally what does that have to do with my comment

My comment was about player choice about encounter design based on job design. What does that have to do with competition

[TBerry]

Except there is basically no compensation or correction anymore (same as there is basically no triage healing) you do the dance or you blow up. P12 is god awful for this

Come again?

[Supersnow845]

Come again?

In P12 you can’t account for someone else’s mistakes, you can’t heal someone who makes a mistake. If everyone doesn’t do the right thing then everyone dies. It’s just boring as hell. Triage is functionally useless in the modern fight because everyone has to play perfectly or everyone loses

[Gember]

In P12 you can’t account for someone else’s mistakes, you can’t heal someone who makes a mistake. If everyone doesn’t do the right thing then everyone dies. It’s just boring as hell. Triage is functionally useless in the modern fight because everyone has to play perfectly or everyone loses

Bring back vulns, and damage downs. Basically.

[xivYuiM]

Except there is basically no compensation or correction anymore (same as there is basically no triage healing) you do the dance or you blow up. P12 is god awful for this.

It also reduces the solution down to a single way to solve it. Think coils, their mechanics are way more simple but they have 10,000 ways to solve them in order to change your optimisation flow. Do you overshield allagen field and then release more towers quicker to get an easier next phase, do you bane tech the eggs which skips the enrage but makes juggling FOF in the corner harder, do you solve leafstorm with an LB3 or do the dance, who baits the renalds

With super chain is 1 solution and if you get it wrong we all blow up. That raid design gets so stale because your optimisation is already done by a spreadsheet you just have to execute it

This is probably the best way to articulate exactly why coils is STILL the best raid series the team has ever made and how it is truly sad that most of the people playing this game will never get to see what they missed. Even with all of the QoL changes we have gotten since then, raiding has never been as fun as it was at that time.

[Menriq]

This is probably the best way to articulate exactly why coils is STILL the best raid series the team has ever made and how it is truly sad that most of the people playing this game will never get to see what they missed. Even with all of the QoL changes we have gotten since then, raiding has never been as fun as it was at that time.

Fun is always going to be subjective. Also, people seem to forget that there are indeed different strategies for different fights, but generally PF will push one to the top. Some mechanics will indeed be 1 solution based, but many others will have different ways of handling them. This includes P12S. Does this mean that every fight is perfect? Not at all. I was not a fan of all the body checks in this last tier. My hope is that they follow through with their stated goal of changing up encounters in 7.0, which will allow them to have more diversity with jobs come 8.0 to try and find a balance with encounter difficulty and giving jobs room to be much more individualized.

[xivYuiM]

Fun is always going to be subjective. Also, people seem to forget that there are indeed different strategies for different fights, but generally PF will push one to the top. Some mechanics will indeed be 1 solution based, but many others will have different ways of handling them. This includes P12S. Does this mean that every fight is perfect? Not at all. I was not a fan of all the body checks in this last tier. My hope is that they follow through with their stated goal of changing up encounters in 7.0, which will allow them to have more diversity with jobs come 8.0 to try and find a balance with encounter difficulty and giving jobs room to be much more individualized.

It goes deeper than just having a mechanic be solvable by doing "we can dodge this move by doing X formation or Y formation!! Both are viable!!" It was more that doing some mechanics a certain way would often have a cascading effect on multiple things that followed in the fight and came with costs and benefits to each section. Also most of the raids were more than just "stand in circle arena and beat up boss". Not to mention like someone else said earlier, since ShB every encounter has been loaded with mechanics where one mistake from anyone = wipe. Before 4.0 it was (most of the time) possible to pick up the slack of your incompetent team members. If DPS got injured or even died at a crucial time it was possible for others to adjust and pick up the slack. Nowadays every mechanic just ends with a strict "is everyone alive and standing in their spot? no? wipe." and it forces PF to become extremely frustrating when you could literally have 7 people be robots that play flawlessly and all it takes is that one person to make a mistake and everyone fails. Or on the other end of the spectrum you could do 99 flawless runs and never clear because someone wants to drool on their keyboard and ERP while raiding and the ONE time you pass a roadblock then make a single mistake it instantly wipes everyone. Of course old raids had SOME mechanics that were like this but it was often the mechanic of the fight. (T9 divebombs for example)