Combat system is beyond saving.

[Ephremjlm]

Hmm, after reading these comments, seeing who voted what, I actually think the feedback was spot on. You gotta remember the ultra casuals aren't represented here.

I saw a comment that said OP cares WAY more than the commenter and that OP would be here way after the commenter. It's true. It's almost parasitic how it works really. Game is made great for targeted audience, game uses audience to draw new audience, game starts tailoring to make new audience larger, game starts to disregard old audience because they're smaller and most will stay anyways via sunken cost fallacy and general addiction, and the larger audience can now be utilize to grow even larger and the cycle continues. Only difference is that original audience will stay invested emotionally while the secondary or third audiences leave without care when bored.

THAT SAID, I wonder how things will be treated now. Telling your audience to play other games when you are a live service and your goal is to maximize profits for a massive corporation that is now bleeding and will likely not get the same Sony funding means that for the first time in a while, OG audience might have some leverage. Its also known that FFXIV didn't retain the large WOW audience like they thought they would. Couple that with Trusts now almost being 100% implemented for all MSQ, button bloat iabout to be fixed via button stacking (meaning more room for varied abilities), and we are kind of set up for the exact opposite thing that happened with FFXI where trusts mostly finished off combat and social cooperation, whereas for FFXIV they might be revived. Yoshi P mentioned regrets about combat, and during live letter he said that 2 months prior his team was already discussing making jobs more unique again for 8.0. To end this point on player feedback, we are getting ANOTHER limited job, open world zones are coming back due to popular demand and disappointment in EW, and to everyone's surprise a dedicated FFXI raid series. All of these scream a return back to MMO normalcy, as opposed to FF Habbo Hotel where fashion and housing is the focus.

I have no clue what the future holds, however if in 8.0 we don't see major changes I'd personally say its a wrap for me. BUT, I think people can have fun however they want to because who am I to tell them otherwise. Though, if you don't support something then voting with your wallet is the only way to see change. If you really love it then it's the right thing to do otherwise you're just enabling something you don't support. They are a company and they need to EARN your sub, EVERY month. Again SE is bleeding right now so they might be incentivized to listen.

[ReynTime]

Hmm, after reading these comments, seeing who voted what, I actually think the feedback was spot on. You gotta remember the ultra casuals aren't represented here.

I saw a comment that said OP cares WAY more than the commenter and that OP would be here way after the commenter. It's true. It's almost parasitic how it works really. Game is made great for targeted audience, game uses audience to draw new audience, game starts tailoring to make new audience larger, game starts to disregard old audience because they're smaller and most will stay anyways via sunken cost fallacy and general addiction, and the larger audience can now be utilize to grow even larger and the cycle continues. Only difference is that original audience will stay invested emotionally while the secondary or third audiences leave without care when bored.

THAT SAID, I wonder how things will be treated now. Telling your audience to play other games when you are a live service and your goal is to maximize profits for a massive corporation that is now bleeding and will likely not get the same Sony funding means that for the first time in a while, OG audience might have some leverage. Its also known that FFXIV didn't retain the large WOW audience like they thought they would. Couple that with Trusts now almost being 100% implemented for all MSQ, button bloat iabout to be fixed via button stacking (meaning more room for varied abilities), and we are kind of set up for the exact opposite thing that happened with FFXI where trusts mostly finished off combat and social cooperation, whereas for FFXIV they might be revived. Yoshi P mentioned regrets about combat, and during live letter he said that 2 months prior his team was already discussing making jobs more unique again for 8.0. To end this point on player feedback, we are getting ANOTHER limited job, open world zones are coming back due to popular demand and disappointment in EW, and to everyone's surprise a dedicated FFXI raid series. All of these scream a return back to MMO normalcy, as opposed to FF Habbo Hotel where fashion and housing is the focus.

I have no clue what the future holds, however if in 8.0 we don't see major changes I'd personally say its a wrap for me. BUT, I think people can have fun however they want to because who am I to tell them otherwise. Though, if you don't support something then voting with your wallet is the only way to see change. If you really love it then it's the right thing to do otherwise you're just enabling something you don't support. They are a company and they need to EARN your sub, EVERY month. Again SE is bleeding right now so they might be incentivized to listen.

Yoshida did say (not that he didn't go back on his words before) he felt making the MSQ content future-proof to let XIV be more appealing to players who want to experience the story solo was the priority for Endwalker and that moving forward he wanted to focus on co-op content again.

[Acelyn]

Yoshida did say (not that he didn't go back on his words before) he felt making the MSQ content future-proof to let XIV be more appealing to players who want to experience the story solo was the priority for Endwalker and that moving forward he wanted to focus on co-op content again.

You really cant blame the combat system for this games woes, and it doesnt have many "woes" to begin with, the game has never been difficult, i dont know what OP is talking about with builds, the builds are the jobs themselves, a war cant do non war things, a rdm cant be anything other than a redmage, you cant "gear up" a sam to be tanky or anything of the sort.

the game is massive and brings players in because its welcoming and easy to pick up and if someone wants to play harder they can join that annoying group of players too, for everyone that says the game is losing money remember that when dawntraail releases that half of the game will be free to play(trail or whatever but its f2p) which means its probably doing just fine cashflow wise

the devteam and yoshiP already spotted the mistake they made and that was the content released in endwalker, compared to old expacs it was lacking which led directly to players having nothing to do and complaining, if they can just keep people busy in 7.0 theyre golden again.

[Mistress_Irika]

Like a few have mentioned I've never started in HW. However, my adventure did started during the beginning of SB where I've actually attempted to try every single content before becoming a hardcore pvp player. Despite my only complaint being how everything was heavily DOT reliant SB was my best expansion for me. I just wanted to throw my 2 cents and thoughts on this.

Half of the playerbase hasn’t even experienced the actual final fantasy XIV combat system that had things like:

• Aggro management
• Cleric stance and Multiple tank stances (3.x WAR was the best job in the history of this game)
• TP (sprint not draining it was a good change)
• Dungeon packs actually being a threat
• Multiple viable builds for all jobs
• Power level being driven by skill rather than solely depending on your gear ilvl

The list goes on.

Aggro management wasn't that deep. I think it was personally removed since many hardly thought of it. Casually, DPS hardly managed their aggros or did anything to keep it down. I noticed this. So why keep it if everyone sees tanks being the sole responsibility?

I've never experience cleric stance. Tank stance only made me realize how truly busted 4.0 WAR was. The personality between the 3 tanks did existed. I think DRK had some sort of crisis then?

I've never found any value with TP sadly.

Definitely will disagree on the multiple builds. There were probably multiple party comps that could be created then, but definitely not multiple builds. When I called myself tinkering with red mage while having 0 raid knowledge I thought of throwing materia on in order to increase the physical damage. I didn't do it because of how the class was design. After doing a quest with Tataru I really tried looking for ways to get a small boost on my physics for SMN using materia. I was upset that the spell was useless after lv 50 which prompted me to learning SCH despite being scared to use a healer for roulettes. I do wish I had that power to control my own stats when leveling.

I'll agree to a degree...I remember when a WAR pulled all mobs before the second boss while racing to Zenos. I was a new healer not up to par gear wise. I ran out of mana, and I've pretty much used up all of my resources. WAR couldn't hold the aggro. I panicked. Somehow, the party survived. Everyone 25% hp while the tank was less than 5%. I have yet to see a ton of skill expression after SB dealing with that scenario.



I would like to add something extra. I quit learning how to heal, because I believe that the reward system was removed from them. Looking back now I'm pretty convinced that it was never there for raiders to begin with. Casually though, yes. If you were struggling as a healer you had more defenses. If you were doing well on the other hand you got to do more damage. Mismia II. Aero III. I'm not sure what was the reasoning behind healers losing out on damage come ShB. If healers were given a few more damage abilities than what they have now maybe I will come back and continue learning the role. Truthfully though, the system needs retuning come 8.0 when the individually of classes is focused on, because as of right now I feel as though I'm being told how I'm supposed to play the class through design. I would like to be able to have multiple playstyles instead of being shown that this is the only way that I can play. It's not just like this with the healers and tanks. It's like this with majority of, if not all, classes.

[Zadood]

It's only the main XIV subreddit where everyone is acting like this game is the 2nd coming of Christ, but it's also the first thing people find when they look for the game on reddit.

That sub didn't used to be like that.
That sub changed it's flavour after the massive WoW exodus happened at the last year of SHB expansion, Asmon "leading" the WoW streamer jump ship didn't help either.

At first, that sub turned into "CBU3 good, Blizzard bad" echo chamber, then at the middle of Endwalker expansion where the honey moon period of "former WoW Streamer" ended and return being WoW Streamer after WoW Dragonflight expansion dropped.

And now that sub is full of fan-art galore (Yes, this is coming from an artist),
#1938473 post about GNB's Superbolide and WHM's Benediction meme,
#2948595 post about BLM as well as DPS's "healer adjust" meme,
#8374753 post about Scion's meme, #9274849 post about Zenos's meme,
#3648482 post being sad about some character's death
#9283939 post being sad and fall in love with Emet

I could list on and on, but that will derail the topic.

Here the things, it is painfully obvious that CBU3 prioritize accessibility over gameplay engagement, and that is not the worst thing about FFXIV.

The worst thing about this design philosophy as well direction is that, it's generate a TON of money to SQEX, at the cost of player experience. How do I know this? Let's say I used to be part of R18 game doujin circle on dlsite, but that would require me open a new thread to discuss, which I don't feel like do it, for now.

CBU3 will only consider going for Unique Job Gameplay design, if the current job design don't generate a TON of money to SQEX.

[Turtledeluxe]

Whether you're on reddit or here, aware of it or not, it's just a fact that jobs are homogenized and encounters feel incredibly routine (with some exceptions) if you're doing anything below Savage, and perhaps even Ultimate in some cases.

I'd also say you can argue it is in fact "beyond saving" because what can the devs do? Add a revolutionary mechanic to combat? Players will complain. Make dungeons anything other than a trash mob hallway? Players will complain. Players are now conditioned to accept mediocrity. And it's not even about "time saving" as devs have implied. "We make dungeons easy so everyone can clear them quickly and reasonably". I don't agree. They're too long for that. The dungeons are just boring, and they lean heavily on art and music to even be memorable at all. They're too long for how boring they are, imho.

[xivYuiM]

Whether you're on reddit or here, aware of it or not, it's just a fact that jobs are homogenized and encounters feel incredibly routine (with some exceptions) if you're doing anything below Savage, and perhaps even Ultimate in some cases.

I'd also say you can argue it is in fact "beyond saving" because what can the devs do? Add a revolutionary mechanic to combat? Players will complain. Make dungeons anything other than a trash mob hallway? Players will complain. Players are now conditioned to accept mediocrity. And it's not even about "time saving" as devs have implied. "We make dungeons easy so everyone can clear them quickly and reasonably". I don't agree. They're too long for that. The dungeons are just boring, and they lean heavily on art and music to even be memorable at all. They're too long for how boring they are, imho.

I hadn't put much thought into it until reading this post but it really is amazing how forgettable all of the post-stormblood dungeons are. I can still easily recall most of the details of all of the 2.x - 4.x dungeons but after ShB I struggle to even remember the existence of 80% of them.

[ReynTime]

Naoki Yoshida had dinner with Masahiro Sakurai and Harada sometime last month or so.

After watching the latest video, as of this posting, that Sakurai left in his own youtube channel, I hope if they talked about work at all that Sakurai told him a thing or two about balance x fun, because the video basically explains some of the wrongdoing in XIV's homogenization.

[Rekh]

Naoki Yoshida had dinner with Masahiro Sakurai and Harada sometime last month or so.

After watching the latest video, as of this posting, that Sakurai left in his own youtube channel, I hope if they talked about work at all that Sakurai told him a thing or two about balance x fun, because the video basically explains some of the wrongdoing in XIV's homogenization.

Interesting! I really hope those 2 have an influence on yoship. This thing where he has to make sure all jobs can clear ultimates and/or savage raids has got to end! It's making the entire game unfun for both casuals and "raiders." Make the game fun for casuals first, then worry about "raid" balance second. If this means less ultimate raids, then boohoo oh well.

[ReynTime]

Interesting! I really hope those 2 have an influence on yoship. This thing where he has to make sure all jobs can clear ultimates and/or savage raids has got to end! It's making the entire game unfun for both casuals and "raiders." Make the game fun for casuals first, then worry about "raid" balance second. If this means less ultimate raids, then boohoo oh well.

Sakurai posted yet another video that could be applied to FFXIV today as well.