Combat system is beyond saving.

[SargeTheSeagull]

Worse than it’s ever been? Oh absolutely. Beyond saving? Not remotely.
WoW was “beyond saving” two years ago. Now it’s better than it’s ever been. Once SE starts hemorrhaging players they’ll get their act together. Yoshi P’s recent comments about 8.0 (though they could be pure PR talk) at least hint that they’re aware that people don’t like 14’s combat anymore and that it may have already started hurting the bottom line.

[Aravell]

If the rotations were difficult then the fights themselves can't be complex, reducing the fun aspect of them.

The combat system is deceptively complex and demands perfect execution and optimization in order to compensate for mistakes that happen elsewhere, with harder fights having less room for that.

Damage optimization while doing raid mechanics and coordinating with party is where the challenge is, not the individual aspect of your character.

People always claim that complex jobs can't exist with complex fights, but why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't there be a good balance between the 2?

If you take complex fights to the logical conclusion, you get what we have now. Fights with debuff overload that requires you to parse all that information within 5 seconds or less and execute it or your entire team blows up. Is that fun? Depends on the person, but I find that kind of design highly frustrating, it's also a bigger wall for less experienced players than harder jobs were.

Look at Golbez EX, people have been likening him to a savage fight. Is it because he does a ton of damage? No. Is it because his mechanics are fast? No. Is it because you have to do his mechanics in very specific ways or your entire team blows up? Yes, that's exactly it.

Balancing fight and job complexity would stop this trickle down effect that's gating more casual players out of farming extremes due to pure frustration. You could carry a bad player back in HW/SB, you cannot carry a bad player in EW design because that player not understanding the mechanic will blow all of your up with no hope of recovery.

Edit: Come to think of it, even stack markers have been Endwalkerised, you can see it clearly in Another Mount Rokkon. First boss has a regular stack marker, do set damage and split among players if more than one. Second and third boss have a different stack marker, if one person, it does a million damage, if 2 people, it does set damage. Another case of "do mechanic this way or die", can't even choose to hypermitigate stack markers anymore.

[Gokki]

Except there is basically no compensation or correction anymore (same as there is basically no triage healing) you do the dance or you blow up. P12 is god awful for this.

[SNIP]

With super chain is 1 solution and if you get it wrong we all blow up. That raid design gets so stale because your optimisation is already done by a spreadsheet you just have to execute it

Yeah, that's encounter design problem, not combat system (they're closely linked of course). There are many variables in all of this and i feel it's more difficult than people realise.

People always claim that complex jobs can't exist with complex fights, but why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't there be a good balance between the 2?

If you take complex fights to the logical conclusion, you get what we have now. Fights with debuff overload that requires you to parse all that information within 5 seconds or less and execute it or your entire team blows up. Is that fun? Depends on the person, but I find that kind of design highly frustrating, it's also a bigger wall for less experienced players than harder jobs were.

[SNIP]

Edit: Come to think of it, even stack markers have been Endwalkerised, [SNIP], can't even choose to hypermitigate stack markers anymore.

It's just the devs designing encounters differently. I do agree that encounter design is stale because everything is in an arbitrary square or round platform and there's never any texture to it, like, why not design a fight on a train where the fight changes depending on which car we're on. A rudimentary version of this exists in the early Omega fights, but that is still basically a rectangle arena.

[Supersnow845]

Yeah, that's encounter design problem, not combat system (they're closely linked of course). There are many variables in all of this and i feel it's more difficult than people realise.
It's just the devs designing encounters differently. I do agree that encounter design is stale because everything is in an arbitrary square or round platform and there's never any texture to it, like, why not design a fight on a train where the fight changes depending on which car we're on. A rudimentary version of this exists in the early Omega fights, but that is still basically a rectangle arena.

I just don’t buy the “it’s more difficult than people imagine it is” when we literally already have it………coils

If they could do it scraping the bottom of the barrel to not bankrupt the company after 1.0 I don’t really think “it’s too hard” is a valid excuse in this day and age

[Chrisie]

I can't understand people's logic who think that these days' jobs are engaging in gameplay. DPS is limited into 2 min burst window, healers... dotglareglareglare dotbroilbroilbroil dotdosisdosisdosis dotmaleficmaleficmalefic... WOW!!!!!! So fun. Tanks don't even need healers in this expansion, and their rotation is also just another burst window but a bit more boring.

I can't believe people think that this combat is okay. You can't push your job to the limits which will reward you in a better result. You can literally do a dungeon while paying only 40% of your attention to it, and your other 60% is on Youtube/Netflix. You need to spam only few buttons anyway.

These days I barely can make myself to do roulettes. Roulettes are just another thing they need to change. I literally puke every time I que for Expert roulette or Alliance roulette. Same. damn. dungeon/raid. Every time. I've been getting ARR raids every single day for 2 months. Dungeons are not dangerous anymore either. The mobs burn down fast. The boss burns down even faster no matter which raid/trial you go into. And boring-in-combat jobs make it even worse.

[Supersnow845]

I regularly do roulettes with my friend over voice call. Occasionally he asks a question neither of us know

I can straight up look away from my screen to look up the answer continuing to just press 1111111 and know that everything will be fine and I’m still doing max DPS because he doesn’t need me anyway and even if I get hit by an AOE it barely does 30% of my HP on a healer

I love being able to max my potential in some of the games most common content not even looking at the screen

[Kreyd]

Without reading all 17 pages of this: as a Tank main I honestly miss things like aggro management, trash packs in dungeosn beeing a threat, and multiple gcd combos for tanks.

[KageTokage]

Without reading all 17 pages of this: as a Tank main I honestly miss things like aggro management, trash packs in dungeosn beeing a threat, and multiple gcd combos for tanks.

I honestly don't feel like the dungeon trash was ever actually threatening aside from certain gimmick/miniboss pulls. It only felt more dangerous due to relative lack of mitigation/healing cooldowns at the lower levels.

Criterion shows that they can make interesting/dangerous trash packs if they feel like it, but they seem to think it's too much for the casual playerbase or something.

[Kaixern]

Without reading all 17 pages of this: as a Tank main I honestly miss things like aggro management, trash packs in dungeosn beeing a threat, and multiple gcd combos for tanks.

Don't forget the boss repositionning itself a lot with the tank having almost nothing to do when it comes to moving the enemy

I love my role having so much "responsibilities" nowadays

[KageTokage]

There really needs to be less hard failstate mechanics in general and more stuff where you just lose so much DPS from failing either due to deaths or damage downs that it almost ensures you'll hit enrage, but can still see more of the fight.

It just creates artificial difficulty when you have to keep wiping to a new mechanic until you've properly felt out every single step of it.