Healing Focus or DPS Focus

[ty_taurus]

Since Sage first released, I've constantly criticized how bad Toxikon and Addersting are as a mechanic, and I've only doubled down on that since. But I actually, finally thought of a way you could keep Toxikon as a GCD with the same potency as Dosis and actually be a functioning part of Sage's kit. Here's the idea:

Throw what you know about Eukrasia out of the window. Because in this example, the three Eukrasian spells you're familiar with do not exist. Instead, Eukrasian Dosis is an attack that has the same potency as your current form of Dosis, only Eurkasia now comes with a hefty MP cost--something like 1200 maybe, or perhaps even more. What changes is that it applies the Eukrasian Diagnosis barrier you're familiar with to your Kardia target in addition to dealing the same amount of damage as an ordinary Dosis cast. Now, if that barrier breaks, then you generate 1 Addersting.

This is where Toxikon comes in, because it's still the same damage as Dosis, but because we didn't have to lose any DPS by casting a targeted heal, it remains neutral with casting Dosis over and over. The ticket here is that Toxikon has no MP cost, and consuming Addersting now restores your MP. In other words, you spend a large chunk of MP to protect the target of your Kardia with a barrier, and if that barrier breaks, you get a resource that's used for mobility and recovering a portion of the MP cost of applying the barrier in the first place. But, it's still more MP even if you get the Addersting proc than simply casting Dosis, and if the barrier doesn't break, it's a large loss of MP.

The problem with this is that Sage has so many OGCD healing resources on ridiculously short cooldowns that it raises the question of "when would I even want to spend the MP for that anyway?" So in order for this to work, you'd need to drastically nerf Sage's ability to heal through weaving at every given opportunity and make protecting with Eukrasian Dosis' barrier the most consistently available option to you.

I still would rather Toxikon be a directly offensive resource than an MP management tool, but I wouldn't hate that if the landscape for healing reflected the desire to rely on that as your first response to damage taken, with other options being more limited or suboptimal.

[Supersnow845]

SGE should have its healing potential merged regardless of the state of toxicon

I cant believe they didn’t see what SCH was doing in ShB and not realise that the only thing holding it back from being an absolute healing monster was limited weave windows and energy drain and then they proceeded to make a class that’s just SCH but without energy drain

[Aravell]

SGE should have its healing potential merged regardless of the state of toxicon

I cant believe they didn’t see what SCH was doing in ShB and not realise that the only thing holding it back from being an absolute healing monster was limited weave windows and energy drain and then they proceeded to make a class that’s just SCH but without energy drain

I kind of find it funny that people tend to make so much noise in general about WAR's healing output being problematic while being completely fine with how SGE can fire off enough free healing to heal 2 concurrent runs of savage (both are problematic in terms of balance).

Probably because SGE has a green icon.

[Ramiee]

SGE is purely missed potential the job, I honestly blame the subrole barrier healer idea.
This whole pure vs barrier healing subrole thing is one of the worst design choices for this game I have ever seen, it would be like adding an official Selfish Tank/Support Tank support tank to the game. Not only does it restict Job design heavily it also makes it that new players will maybe pick up one role then get too scared to try another job in the same role because the subrole is different.

[Lucyfurr1988]

I always thought it was kinda weird how there wasn't more Assize like abilities where DPS and healing are both a part of it. Like for example if I was playing scholar in a dungeon I would be far more tempted to place down sacred soil even if my tank was an immortal warrior if sacred soil had a shadowflare type thing going on as well even if it was really weak. It's not like this is completely erased considering Macrocosmos, earthly star and Pneuma also have DPS+Heal abilities. Like even if these were stronger in the healing section then the DPS at least having far more of these options will let you fit it into a DPS priority for healing.

doesnt work though, assize and earthly star being ogcd means theyre now primarily used for dps not healing. all adding mor abilities like them will do is just make it so they will be used under buffs.

damage really is the only metric that currently counts in game.

now having said that. more abilities like macrocosmos and pneuma i think are the best way forward. for the most part in single target they're dps neutral and in aoe are a gain. you lose nothing by using them but also gain nothing by forcing them under buffs. more dps neutral gcd heals would give a better healing rotation. then its just a matter of dps rotations which tbh if they up the damage output and remove the ogcd bloat in favour of dps neutral gcd options i personally dont think that people would have the issues that they currently do with healing.

[Lucyfurr1988]

I kind of find it funny that people tend to make so much noise in general about WAR's healing output being problematic while being completely fine with how SGE can fire off enough free healing to heal 2 concurrent runs of savage (both are problematic in terms of balance).

Probably because SGE has a green icon.

theres too much healing around full stop.

warrior is the most egregious when it comes to a non healer role having too much healing.

IMO the tanks and dps should lose all healing in favour of mitigative abilities.

healers should have the focus on healing but with less ogcd abilities and more gcd dps neutral abilities. healing has become way too powerful and giving so much healing to roles that arent healer is as big a problem as the 1 button rotation.

we barely have to plan out our heals to the point you can literally throw healing plans out the window and just yolo it and still do same damage/healing output.

having a healing rotation thats has dps attached to it while removing healing from other roles would go a very long way in terms of making steps towards a decent healing design

[ty_taurus]

SGE should have its healing potential merged regardless of the state of toxicon

I cant believe they didn’t see what SCH was doing in ShB and not realise that the only thing holding it back from being an absolute healing monster was limited weave windows and energy drain and then they proceeded to make a class that’s just SCH but without energy drain

I mean, absolutely true. I just have always been furious with how Toxikon was created, and that was the first time I could come up with any concept of an idea that allowed Toxikon itself to remain largely unchanged and for me to like it. That's all.

[vetch]

The solution? Either overhaul healer design and combat encounters to emphasize healing, buff management, and debuff cleansing, or adapt healers to the existing combat model by incorporating engaging DPS rotations and abilities.

This lukewarm middle ground, in my opinion, is the absolute worst of the three options.

It's no coincidence that people ask for ARR/HW gameplay back when those two expansions had interesting damage kits for the people who wanted them and the raidbosses beat the shit out of you for the people who wanted to heal.

[rawker]

If we /pray harder, maybe they will bless us with the return of GCD Shadowflare to SCH.

[Katish]

doesnt work though, assize and earthly star being ogcd means theyre now primarily used for dps not healing. all adding mor abilities like them will do is just make it so they will be used under buffs.

damage really is the only metric that currently counts in game.

now having said that. more abilities like macrocosmos and pneuma i think are the best way forward. for the most part in single target they're dps neutral and in aoe are a gain. you lose nothing by using them but also gain nothing by forcing them under buffs. more dps neutral gcd heals would give a better healing rotation. then its just a matter of dps rotations which tbh if they up the damage output and remove the ogcd bloat in favour of dps neutral gcd options i personally dont think that people would have the issues that they currently do with healing.

I disagree that DPS neutral is the best way to go about it, they would just end up under the same rope as OGCDs if you really think about it. Use it and forget about it. Not to mention, they would still fall under the case of using them instantly in dungeons for DPS gains (unfortunately there is no changing that), and almost never having to use them in content besides dungeons (if optimized). The best way imho is to capitalize on that idea, dps skills that look to enhance pre-exisisting heals with windows, making them DPS gains all around. This would allow for more with decision making (which doesn't really exist in the role nowadays to be quite frank), if handled properly. For example if we cut our heal potencies either in half or quarters, then we could open windows on which they regain the now current potencies, giving rise to a more optimal play style if the healer knows what they are doing, otherwise it would allow for healers that don't (or healers that miss a window) to heal more, which makes it more exciting (especially when there are two healers). So, if there is a healer that just wants to spam heals, that would introduce more heals for them; where it would also allow a more optimize play for healers that already know what they are doing i.e something to strive for. These windows could also differentiate (de-homogenize) the healers depending on when they occur and for how long. As it stands now though, healers don't really have any real progression, as any heal can heal any mechanic unless something goes absolutely wrong; and even then is extremely easy to recover from.