Give Warrior the Dark Knight treatment in regards to Bloodwhetting

[Lyth]

DPS balance is fickle because of how readily it can be changed mid-expansion. Now is the opportunity to get mitigation and self-sustain right on tanks. Otherwise, you're going to be living with that balance for another two years.

I would like to see a shift back towards more deliberate and active self-sustain rather than passive effects. I think that a lot of the 'Additional Effect' heal and regens that were added this expansion to actions like Equilibrium and Shake it Off need to be rolled back. If you want a job to have a 'lifesteal' theme, then the HP gains need to move towards resource-gated offensive actions rather than defensive ones. So rather than placing lifesteal on something like Bloodwhetting, it really should be on an action like Inner Chaos/Chaotic Cyclone, where it heals proportionately to the damage you've taken recently or based off of the amount of damage that you've lost. That has the added effect of coupling mitigation and burst, which is something that WAR used to do back in Heavensward (Vengeance and Inner Release also generated gauge at the time).

I'd like to see invulns revised. Hallowed was designed to be 7 minutes at a time when tankbusters occurred every 30 seconds. Modern day fights have much more infrequent tankbusters. As a result, designing interesting tankbuster mechanics and swaps ends up being meaningless, simply because you'll always choose to disrespect the tankbuster with an invuln. Either the frequency of tankbusters needs to increase significantly, or tank invulns need to move towards longer recasts. Holmgang is the worst offender here, especially after this expansion's buffs. I think it should be on a 6 minute recast, not 4.

I think the balance on Shake it Off needs to be revised, especially if Vengeance is being upgraded to provide any kind of raid benefit. If Shake is to work on all damage types in contrast to Heart of Light and Dark Missionary, then it should mitigate less and be on a longer recast.

Most of all, I just want them to look at tank balance with fresh eyes. Whoever has been responsible for balancing the role over the past few years hasn't really done a very good job. I don't know if that's due to apathy or bias, but I really want to see some change within the role.

[Aravell]

Like if they want to continue this ridiculous sustain on WAR then they should nerf its damage 10+% below DRK but only because it opens avenues for the healer to potentially do more damage because they aren’t babying the WAR

But that doesn't work in the current design because the dev team decided arbitrarily that healers must do less damage than tanks. So even should a WAR open up more opportunities to do damage for a healer, it wouldn't even come close to covering that 10%+.

It would just end in WAR getting kicked on sight and WAR players complaining for buffs again.

[GoatOfWar]

But that doesn't work in the current design because the dev team decided arbitrarily that healers must do less damage than tanks. So even should a WAR open up more opportunities to do damage for a healer, it wouldn't even come close to covering that 10%+.

It would just end in WAR getting kicked on sight and WAR players complaining for buffs again.

It's almost like War's design is utter garbage and isn't salvageable without arbitrarily making it's values higher than all the other tanks because of the hyper focus on balance for week 1 clears.
It breaks 90% of the game's content but you had an incentive to play other tanks in current savage and ultimates. Apparently, taxing War's damage for it's ridiculous utility wasn't fair. And yet, it somehow still needs to keep all that utility.

What's perhaps more ironic than anything else, is the insistence that War's healing is part of it's identity. But this healing is constantly proving to be it's biggest balancing problem. And despite it, Warrior itself has a track record of cannibalising the job identities of other tanks. Something else i've noticed, is that Warrior players are the first ones to gatekeep any sort of healing related ideas for Dark knight, because it would take away from War's job identity.
I personally don't want healing buffs to Drk, but that's still a funny observation. Especially considering how much War took from Drk without any concern for it's job identity.

[Aravell]

It's almost like War's design is utter garbage and isn't salvageable without arbitrarily making it's values higher than all the other tanks because of the hyper focus on balance for week 1 clears.

Oh, I agree that there's no way to balance a tank with that much utility. If they were taxed accordingly, they'd probably be very far behind. I'd rather see their sustain get nerfed to a more reasonable value.

It's not hard to achieve either, just changing Bloodwhetting to be based on damage done and removing the HoT from Shake would bring them in-line with the others already. I don't think the regen from Equilibrium would be particularly gamebreaking if they change Bloodwhetting.

[rawker]

I hope Aurora gets an additional effect that heals the GNB for 1200 potency all while having the regen still attached to it. I imagine what else could the salty spoiled brats would ask for.

[Valence]

So you'd prefer we simply the dps rotations of DRK and GNB while giving them Nascent Flash, Shake it off and Holmgang? Because there isn't much alternative if we're saying everyone needs to be doing the exact same damage and effort level.

Lack of creativity and dev skill issue. They have 2-3 years between expansion to think long and hard about creative things to do.

[GoatOfWar]

Lack of creativity and dev skill issue. They have 2-3 years between expansion to think long and hard about creative things to do.

I think you're coming from a very naive point of view if you think more homogenisation won't be the end result of letting all tanks do the same dps and have equal utility.

[rawker]

To be fair, I remember when I was still a pitiful player choosing PLD over WAR and DRK during HW, I proposed that all tanks should have the same DPS... but varying on how to achieve it. If the homogenization we're talking about is that all tanks have the same GCDs, oGCDs, potencies across the board, sustain, etc.. and that the diff is just for visual purposes only, then that's where I draw the line.

[Valence]

I think you're coming from a very naive point of view if you think more homogenisation won't be the end result of letting all tanks do the same dps and have equal utility.

With SE's current track of pve design? Sure.

But I think you seriously lack of imagination if the only think it inspires you is naivety. Respectfully.

[Oizen]

With SE's current track of pve design? Sure.

But I think you seriously lack of imagination if the only think it inspires you is naivety. Respectfully.

I think its more of realism of how much the devs actually care about job design more than anything else.
And they don't really care at all.