Pictomancer is absurd

[Gemina]

I don't know where you might've been but there were quite a few people in the forums asking for it at least and believing it was coming based on the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles shirt.

Show me the receipt(s). I've been around since 2016, and while I don't dedicate my every waking moment on these forums, the rise in Pictomancer discussions is very recent. It rarely, if ever came up in discussions when adding a new caster to the game was the topic. Those conversations always centered around Geomancer, Green Mage, Time Mage, Chemist, and Necromancer. I can recall more mentions of Puppet Master than I can Pictomancer in previous years. While I won't say it has never come up, I will stick by my previous comment of saying no one was asking for it. I would even wager many pro Pictos would still choose one of the other options over it if given the choice.

While I would've preferred just about anything else, it's coming and I'm going to accept it because the alternative would be letting it fester and becoming a miserable grouch.

Well, what other choice do we have? That doesn't mean we can't criticize the decision. Dev criticism and complaints happen all the time here. Is it only allowed when the critique/complaint is the consensus?

But while the developers obviously aim to please, game development isn't a democracy. This was already shown to us when Viera was by far the most desired race when they ran that poll like a decade ago but we got scaley people, which was the least desired just because that's the one they felt like they wanted and could be more creative with. Pictomancer was selected because they wanted it.

This argument only works if Viera were never made a playable race. They even reversed their decision when they stated that it would be female only along with male Hrothgar. FFXIV isn't a democracy in the sense that the subscribers decide who gets to develop the game based on what those team members promise to bring, but their feedback can and does influence their decisions. They can't make everyone happy, but it's not a bad thing to try anyway.

If we're going to only allow jobs in FF games that show up multiple times, then it'll just be the same jobs over and over. At least Pictomancer is a bit more creative and allows the devs to do more interesting battle effects. I've been a fan of the "cel-shaded" look in video games since Wind Waker and Cel Damage.

This is one of the better arguments I have seen that is pro pictomancer...

While that may be true in a vacuum, the reality is that you can currently dress up as a reindeer (or any one of the dozen mascot outfits we have), pull a gigantic champagne bottle out of nowhere, and spray people down with it. I'm not really worried about the aesthetics anymore. If it's specifically jobs and/or seeing silly things in an actual dungeon you're worried about, then we've already crossed that bridge with Ninjas producing cartoon bunnies on their heads and bosses turning people into "water imps". Carbuncle itself in my opinion swings closer to the Pictomancer aesthetic side of things than the grittier medieval fantasy of everything else.

... This is not. Your argument is much, much stronger if you leave this out. This is parroting, and is indicative of an NPC mindset. Your previous statements show that you can think for yourself, and come up with your own viewpoints to express your opinion on why Pictomancer as a viable design choice to bring into the game.

The thing is, when it comes to glamour and battle effects, I cannot control, nor do I care how a player chooses to dress their character. I also can turn the battle effects off for other players so I won't even see them. My argument here comes into play about my own personal decision to play this job. The glamour options, the job's skillset, and its effects heavily influence this decision. I would love to want to play Pictomancer. None of the other casters with the exception of BLM has appealed to me, so when it was announced that the game would be adding another caster, I was excited to see what it was and what they would do. What they came up with fell short of my expectations. I know and understand that this does not mean everyone else should dislike the choice. Of course not. However, it does place me in the camp of other players who were also disappointed, and this should be ok too.

[MikkoAkure]

Show me the receipt(s). I've been around since 2016, and while I don't dedicate my every waking moment on these forums, the rise in Pictomancer discussions is very recent. It rarely, if ever came up in discussions when adding a new caster to the game was the topic. Those conversations always centered around Geomancer, Green Mage, Time Mage, Chemist, and Necromancer. I can recall more mentions of Puppet Master than I can Pictomancer in previous years. While I won't say it has never come up, I will stick by my previous comment of saying no one was asking for it. I would even wager many pro Pictos would still choose one of the other options over it if given the choice.

After the shirt reveal at fan fest there were several threads about speculating on the job and people were talking about green mage, geomancer, and pictomancer.

YoshiP said on stage that there would be no blitzball, can't get any higher cope than that.

Corsairs probably the JP reveal, The turtles t-shirt seems far more indicative of pictomancer imo

I saw someone make the guess of Pictomancer based off the concept of the Ninja Turtles being named after famous artists. Pretty solid guess I thought.

Yeah this makes the most sense to me too. Painter or Pictomancer, use a brush, cause magic effects.

We already even kinda have something like that with Demon Chadarnook back in Stormblood, so they could even pull a "Oh you fought a demon painting? Yeah the ancient tales of paintings murdering people comes from our art, no pun intended, but the paintings aren't actually alive... usually."

And a whole thread from 6 years ago:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...30149&langid=7

Your argument is much, much stronger if you leave this out. This is parroting, and is indicative of an NPC mindset. Your previous statements show that you can think for yourself, and come up with your own viewpoints to express your opinion on why Pictomancer as a viable design choice to bring into the game.

I don't even know where to start with this or what "NPC mindset" is supposed to mean.

I don't know what else to tell you other that "cartoony" stuff has already entered the game. You can get turned into water imps, frogs, green chicken, or even paint the floor in a raid like was brought up above. You can go to a casino that is in the shape of a giant cactuar covered in domes, filled with bunny girls, and hop in a tiny plane to shoot cartoony balloons. You can summon a cartoony rabbit on your head if you mess up mudras or summon a bright neon glowing cat-rabbit thing that does gem magic. While none of them had cartoony effects as core to their content and this is certainly an escalation, it's at least not alone.

[Gemina]

After the shirt reveal at fan fest there were several threads about speculating on the job and people were talking about green mage, geomancer, and pictomancer.

That's wonderful. In a previous post I stated that the rise in pictomancer discussion is recent, i.e. as a result of the Yoshi's shirt hinting at the job and the job reveal itself a little later. Those discussions, be they positive or negative, would fall under that umbrella. Am I not being clear when it comes to the timeline involving these discussions?

And a whole thread from 6 years ago:

Wow... six years ago. Bravo. No, seriously you have my commendation for digging this up. I asked you to provide a receipt and you most certainly did that. You're someone I would want on my side if I ever go through a tax audit. Unfortunately, you're still missing the point. You even admitted it yourself that we're basically stuck with this job design choice from the dev team. That you would choose something different if given that choice, and that is my point. I am really not sure what it is exactly you take issue with. Is it the fact that some people, myself included simply do not like this job? I'm quite sure many players will think, "Well, you don't have to play it then." And they're right. I don't have to play it, and I don't have to like it either.

I don't even know where to start with this or what "NPC mindset" is supposed to mean.

I don't know what else to tell you other that "cartoony" stuff has already entered the game. You can get turned into water imps, frogs, green chicken, or even paint the floor in a raid like was brought up above. You can go to a casino that is in the shape of a giant cactuar covered in domes, filled with bunny girls, and hop in a tiny plane to shoot cartoony balloons. You can summon a cartoony rabbit on your head if you mess up mudras or summon a bright neon glowing cat-rabbit thing that does gem magic. While none of them had cartoony effects as core to their content and this is certainly an escalation, it's at least not alone.

So what? Whoever I said I'm in favor of that crap as well? You need to understand that this isn't an argument. If I directly ask you why you feel Pictomancer is good choice to bring into the game, and your response is, "We already have silly stuff in the game." You are admitting the choice is silly. You have already made valid and strong statements why Pictomancer can work in FFXIV, and you did it without resorting to the nonsensical word salad in this quote.

It's fine to have fun, cute, and cartoony stuff in the game. That within itself I do not take issue with. However, the jobs in FFXIV take on a more serious approach. I am not saying that Pictomancer doesn't have a place among them. I am saying that based off of what I have seen thus far, it has missed the mark. I am saying they could have done a better job crafting this new job in a manner that fits the overall aesthetic of FFXIV jobs. The cartoony battle effects does not line it up with the other jobs, it lines it up with the cutesy crap in the game we don't take very seriously for obvious reasons. Hopefully that can put it into perspective why this argument is weak and doesn't help you. They are also not your own words. You're just regurgitating them.

[Sjol]

That you would choose something different if given that choice, and that is my point. I am really not sure what it is exactly you take issue with. Is it the fact that some people, myself included simply do not like this job? I'm quite sure many players will think, "Well, you don't have to play it then." And they're right. I don't have to play it, and I don't have to like it either.

...snip...

The cartoony battle effects does not line it up with the other jobs, it lines it up with the cutesy crap in the game we don't take very seriously for obvious reasons.

I think part of the problem is that SE is running out of design space and that covers mechanics, visual art, etc. They probably also have only a handful of serious designs already lined up and they need at least one for Meteor to take on each expansion.

In terms of visual space, while I personally minimize other people's effects, not everyone does and having something visually distinctive helps a lot. I did appreciate the broad slicing effect of Reaper, but since that's already taken a gloppier slower effect gives it some distinctiveness. You've got literally about 600 battle effects give or take maybe 50. Adding another 50 battle effects on top of that that all need to be distinctive and it's getting kind of difficult to make abilities that look like a particular job and not like the other jobs, so I'm going to give the designers a little slack on this and actually applaud them for making something really distinct. It may not be your preferred style, but it serves at least one job really well.