Astrologian: what is your understanding about it?

[Local_Custard]

I will respond in the new comments in this post later as I got an idea for 3 resources for AST and want to have it be polished up by the time I post about it! :3

As a sneak peak it'll be 2 additions to how AST works

[Raikai]

Stormblood was my favorite iteration, but I didn’t play in heavensward. This was back when cards all had different effects, and they had secondary effects from Royal Road. AST also had more time magic from Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition, which could extend cards, regens, lucid dreaming etc. Back then, earthly star also did less damage and was smaller, so it was mainly used as a healing tool - and its timing and placement mattered more. Shadowbringers was also a pretty good version of AST imo.

I’m not really sure what a good version of the 3-resource thing might look like. The most memey version that I’ve heard of is this: “every 20s you generate a stack for lady of the crowns. When you use three lady of the crowns, you gain a stack of lord of the crowns”, I would hope that this is just a meme.

My wishlist for AST would be:
1. Rework cards. The previous iterations were better, they could go back to any of them.
2. For heals, I’m mainly not a fan of Celestial Opposition as “just a free Aspected Helios” - I would like that to be reworked.
3. Figure out a purpose for pure and barrier healers, and rework how they fit into the meta. The barrier healers really shouldn’t be this strong.

Btw, if you didn’t like Scholar, you could try Sage. They’re very similar but you might like the aesthetics of Sage. In some aspects it’s easier too.

Honestly I think the whole barrier/regen healer they shot themselves on the foot by making that. It just creates an unecessary 'box' to limit how their general healing premise works, plus will it become uneven when they add a fifth healer? Or this healer will be flex like AST once used to be? (A slap on the face of ASTs, really).

[Supersnow845]

Honestly I think the whole barrier/regen healer they shot themselves on the foot by making that. It just creates an unecessary 'box' to limit how their general healing premise works, plus will it become uneven when they add a fifth healer? Or this healer will be flex like AST once used to be? (A slap on the face of ASTs, really).

They are never going to add another healer very likely

They will delay adding another healer by reworking AST every expansion like their excuse was for ShB then by the time it would be time for them to make one they will just declare they are not making any more jobs

[Xurtan]

Agreed @ EW's AST being by far the worst iteration. God I really miss HW classes.

[Zaytex]

As I've only played EW seriously and into end-game, I don't have any experience with the previous iterations of AST, even if they all sound more engaging, skillful, and fun. However, at the moment I am enjoying AST the most out of the healers due to its more brain stimulating gameplay compared to the other three healers. You actually have something to do outside your ''111111111'' rotation and the 3 cards + divination + lord crown + earthly star window every 2 minutes is very fun for me. That incredibly tight and busy window is pretty much my cope right now for healer design lacking an actual dps rotation. All of it's healing need to be pre-planned which requires active thinking (unlike WHM, just turn brain off and press button when needed) and it has the most interesting healing button as well, with Macrocosmos. Neutral sect is a big benefit too in tight situations or when you need to cover for your shield healer (PF experience of incompetent co-healers go crazy).

It still has flaws of course: Card RNG is such a kill joy at times, especially with Lord/Lady where I will never get the one I actually want for a given situation. Lightspeed is basically a must-have for the 2 minute window for optimal card usage (3 cards + divination), leaving AST as the most immobile healer where certain mechanics make you have to move a lot, OR if you decide to save LS for those mechanics you are hindered on your optimal 2-minute window. Obviously, the lack of more dps buttons is a problem too as outside the 2 minute window, and one card draw 30 seconds from your last divination, you are going back to spamming 11111131111 for an extended period of time. It's also garbage at recovery situations, especially when progging savage as it has no on-demand burst healing like WHM.

The upcoming rework is making me worried, because whilst AST, is definitely not as nuanced and full of depth as it used to be from my understanding, it's still definitely the hardest healer by far and the only one which has an engaging job mechanic that takes genuine effort to pull off optimally every 2 minutes, as well as a clear and differentiated role from WHM. Comparing SCH/SGE and seeing how similar they are in so many ways.. yet you look at AST/WHM and they're extremely different to one another, and that's very good IMHO. I'm terrified this rework will just strip away the remaining complexity and ''depth'' of AST and simply make it a WHM with a star/galaxy aesthetic, as every rework seems to make it more simpler and easier.

[Sylvain]

AST went through many iteration, both on the healing front and the card front.

Healing, it seems to have taken the direction of preplaced healing. Exploding Star, Horoscope and Macrocosm are prime examples (Exaltation too).

Which thematically works well with the divination healer. You "forsee" what's going to happen and set heals to occurs into the future, you plan ahead basically. Which is a stark contrast with the whm.


The card system however, doesn't work well with FF14.

Essentially, we got two system. One where each card had a unique and powerful effect and the current where all cards are functionnally the same, making a slight distinction between range and melee in an attempt to preserve the 6 symboles and tied to the lore.

The first system was fun, but fundamentally broken.
Being able to do 10% for 30s every minute made it so that any other option was just not worth it. Which, depending on the RNG, made your rdps contribution widly vary between a good run with many AoE balance and a bad run with little to 0.
The thing is, while 10% raid mitigation was strong, it was essentially useless because you were suppose (and able) to be able to deal with anything the game would throw at you without random based healing/mitigation. Therefor, any extra mitigation/heal coming from RNG was unnecessary. Leaving only room for extra DPS which is the only thing you never have too much, especially in harder content.
The harder the content, the more important that DPS becomes, making your performance widly RNG. They fxed this with the new system, all cards are %DPS boost, so no more need to fish for that one specific card. In a sens, it is much more balanced and in line with how the game works in end game... but it is also more boring, basically, you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

The only remnant of that DPS/HEAL rng are the crown, which we all know the result, the Lady is useless. It follows the same logic, I cannot base my ability to heal a specific portion of the fight on the Lady, because I won't have it half the time. Therefor, because I need to be able to do it without it, whenever I draw a Lady, it is useless. AT BEST, if I was making a gcd heal it could allow me to do a Malefic instead. And I said could, because if you did an Aspected Helios, odds are you needed more than 400 potency. The end result is that only the DPS matters.

The RNG healing/mitigation is fundamentally incompatible with the way FF14 raiding works.

The current system is less fun, less interesting, it sparks less joy and it does feel (and is) less impactful than the previous one. But it is more balanced.

I don't know what they will do with it. It seems the crown stays, unfortunately. (unless they somehow allow to redraw it or use both... but then it's not really RNG is it?)

I feel it is important to consider tho that the system needs to be balanced because this will impact how much the job is played in the hardest instances of the game. Who cares about a broken system when you're doing roulettes or even extreme trials? What matters is that your job is balanced so that not only is it viable in more difficult content, but it is also not the only options. Again, job balance only matters for Savage (early weeks) and recent ultimate, anything else, you could gut half the kit and it wouldn't matter. And while some people might feel "who cares about ultimate, they're only played by 1% of the population". It matters because it is the only place where balance matters. No matter how bad a job is, in any other content, it doesn't matter.

I don't want the old system back, because it would make AST the "go to" job in any fight having a tight DPS check. Worse, if they were to bring it back but make your RNG vary wildly between "big contribution" and "low contribution" depending on your RNG, I wouldn't want to play a job which could make my group wipe at 1% because "I didn't get any DPS AoE card for 5min straight... sorry guys"

However, something needs to change, the cards do feel very unimpactful. When you consider that a card brings about 1.5-2 malefic worth of DPS depending on crit/who receives it... you're just like... "woohoo...."

[Allegor]

Cards pairs changed to be optimally usable on [Tanks (dmg+mit) / Healers (dmg+extra healing) / DPSsers (dmg+crit)] instead of trios to Melee/Ranged. I just think it would feel more dynamic to allow every role a chance to get a card boost.

This is actually a really good point I never really realized until now. With the old cards, I could give Spire to WARs so they have fun cleaving, and obviously Bole for extra mits to any tank, and Ewer to healers/casters who were running low or recently raised, basically everyone had use for any card, situational as they might be .... but now that I realize, every single card always goes to the dps. Last time I gave a card to a tank was by accident cuz the server tic didn't realize I had switched targets on time lol

Also, I personally despise the melee/ranged division. Get rid of it, I don't care what you replace it with, just burn it. Burn it

[Sylvain]

This is actually a really good point I never really realized until now. With the old cards, I could give Spire to WARs so they have fun cleaving, and obviously Bole for extra mits to any tank, and Ewer to healers/casters who were running low or recently raised, basically everyone had use for any card, situational as they might be .... but now that I realize, every single card always goes to the dps. Last time I gave a card to a tank was by accident cuz the server tic didn't realize I had switched targets on time lol

Also, I personally despise the melee/ranged division. Get rid of it, I don't care what you replace it with, just burn it. Burn it

The issue stays the same.
Let say we take this system, where it would always be "Dmg + X", X being mitigation for tanks, extra healing for healer and crit for DPS.

What would the end result be? t... making it useless.



If you card a tank, he gets X% increased damage and a useless mitigation. Why is it useless? Because he has to survive whatever would be coming without that card otherwise he'd die 66% of the time. (assuming no reroll)
If you card a healer, we get X% increased damage and extra heal which, like for the tank, is useless because you have to be able to heal whatever is coming without it otherwise you'd wipe 66% of the time.
In other words, we're back to the issue of the lord/lady. You can't base your healing off something RNG, therefor whenever it's popping up, you don't need it.

Finally, you get the DPS getting X% increased dmg and crit...

X% on DPS is stronger than X% on tank (spare DRK) which is stronger than X% on Healer.

Among all 3 cards, only the X% dps increase is impactful (and crit on dps as it's just extra dps), because you never take into consideration those bonuses.

The card system, provided it stays RNG, does not work in FF14 raiding environnement in its current iteration/philosophie.
Because no matter what buff the cards offer, you cannot setup mitigation and healing of random elements.

Unless they make it so that the extra mitigation and healing allows for extra DPS making them worthwhile while not essential.

For instance, let say a boss does very hard hitting AA and you spent a significant portion of the fight throwing Aspected Benefit, you'd get a tanking card, reducing damage taken from AA by 20% for 30s.
That mitigation allows you to shoot an extra or two malefic, making it useful while not mandatory.

Applying the same logic for healing, where damage would be much more consistent, forcing us to use Aspected Helios often, if a healing card allows us to throw 1 or 2 extra malefic, then it is fine because your buff allowed you to heal less often and thus dps more.

In these case, you'd have all 3 cards granting a palpable bonus which is at the same time not essential yet equivalent.

But since in its current iteration, you heal 99% of all damage with ogcd, that tank don't require more than general AoE + some ogcd to survive, any extra healing or mitigation is useless because it will not make a difference.
If I give you 10% extra healing potency for 15s, you will still heal the exact same amount of time as if you didn't have it in most scenarios.
If you reduce a tank damage taken by 10-20% for 15s, you would still heal him the same.

So if the supportive aspect of the card is useless, then only the dps component remain... and again... DPS wins.

The only way to make cards flavorfull and unique would be remove the RNG component.

If every minute I get to draw my 6 cards, each having a unique effect, and I get to use all 6 within that minute once, then I can plan around, so you can put any fun and engaging effect on them.

But if cards bring any form of supportive effect in an RNG manner, you can't plan around it, so you always play as if you don't have i

As a side note, it doesn't mean I enjoy the current system.
It's bland, boring and flavorless. But at the very least it is the most balanced system as in, "every card is useful".

I hope we get something new, (not expecting much tbh), but I've thought about it for a long time, in current FF14 raiding environnement, the card system (like the old one or whatever variant you do which isn't "all cards are the same"), does not work. FF isn't a game where random ponctual utility is useful, which is exactly what cards are, random and ponctual.

[Allegor]

snip

I wasn't pointing out to that idea specifically but the realization of the fact that cards are 100% worthless for non-dps players, whereas at least with the old system anyone could benefit from them, as niche as some could be. Now I'm not saying the old cards were without flaws either, but it just felt more...diverse/fair? if that makes sense.

I guess all it boils down to is that AST's very identity goes against the game's format /shrug

[Theox]

The main problem with ast is how busy it is but at the same time it makes the job much more interesting than whm. It's a blessing and a curse tbh. If you want to play optimally you kinda have to use macros for cards, without the macros I felt the burst window felt too overwhelming. You get used to it, of course, but why make your life harder on purpose?

The next problem is, of course, card buffs. They're so boring and uninspired, but realistically it's not going to change 100%, because every job is balanced with the game's encounters in mind, and they won't be able to come up with a fresh interesting solution that actually works, they're just not adequate enough.

Ogcds are one thing that I actually really like, but I do agree that sometimes it's just too much even in hardest encounters. If you use your heals properly you won't ever have to gcd heal.

That being said, I think ast is the best healer class when it comes to gameplay, it's not as straightforward and actually involves some randomness (albeit not gamechanging) and rewards game knowledge. I hope the devs won't butcher it next expansion.