[Dawntrail] Benchmark Graphics Update - Hellsguard Roegadyn (Smudgegate 2024)

[FuturePastNow]

I hate the nose smudge. I'm glad it's been toned down significantly, though I would have preferred more nose options.

[Allegor]

if you feel like things are looking too washed out, crank down the gamma correction in the benchmark settings

Both game and benchmark are at 50 (the default, as far as I'm aware) so I guess that's just how Red (will) look now, unless I start toying with the settings. I also noticed that under certain lightings, his hair color seems "dirty blonde" and blends too close to his skin tone, which is....not a favorable look at all - for the record, that's the deepest tone of brown so it can't go darker than that, except straight up black I guess.

[faiarrow]

It's taken me a day to process because I'm still quite upset about this all, but compiled here with direct match-for-match comparison caps and my thoughs as to some of the changes. A little more in-depth than my prior mood of just 'well, goodbye to my character.'

For the record:
Yes I have run the benchmark. I am aware the CC lighting is not 'the same' as the dynamic in-engine lighting. I can't get comparable side-by-side caps of Sko outside of the CC. The only thing the benchmark actually running showed me was that her skin is a touch warmer and more like her in-game and PS5 CC colouration, and that my concerns regarding other things are still quite valid.





The pros:

• Texture update generally seems to be OK - there are issues with the way hair blends into the forehead made by floating sections on certain racial styles and the new lighting engine shading under them so it makes it blatant they're floating, but that can be ironed out.
• Racial gear texture update is great.
• Hair might be OK with tweaks, the clasp at the back on this style has clearly not been updated yet as it is very poorly textured and looks flat.

The cons:

• I can live without the permanent catch light. I don't think the black pupils works on f!roegadyn after almost 10 years of seeing them with the coloured/jewel effect. Impacts lighter eyes especially.
• Rhinarium/ash/smudge being made so light in the new skin is a problem; the lighting engine will not magically make it darker. Removal of prominent racial specific traits like this erases identity and makes it hard to believe the intended PLL statement that our characters will simply 'look better.'
• Lips certainly aren't fantastic - the new facial bones have adjusted how the lips sit and they seem to be quite a bit smaller?
• Tattoos and face paints still being 256px is pretty jarring. I suspect this will be fixed in time but it's really awful in the benchmark.
• Angle of the new lashes seems to be heavily impacting the visual of the already problematic new eyes, shades them intensely and even in scenes where there should be more brightness to the eyes it makes them very dark.

The problem of streamlining the workflow for the update so that all human-like characters are stemmed from hyuran models is really starting to show, even within the hyur themselves seeing a lot of disparity between midlanders and highlanders. I know roegadyn are not exactly a beastial race compared to the likes of viera, or au'ra, but we're losing a lot of the galkan origins from the XI roots of this race with so much smoothing out.

[Anarnee]

I decided to comb the JP part of the forum for posts that are Roegadyn related and I thought I would share what I find here.

I will update as I find them, I've seen a few that mention the whole of the noses getting rounder but this one in particular she mentions the faded nose, so please give it a like.

Just hit the little arrows in the quote and it will take you to the page.

ルガディンのローエンガルデを使用しています。
鼻の黒い部分が薄くなっていて残念でした。

薄いほうが好きな人もいるとは思うので、こちらはホクロなどのように選べるようになれば嬉しいです。

The quick dirty translation is;

"I use Lugadin's Lohengarde (this means Roegadyn Hellsguard), I was disappointed that the black part of her nose had faded.

I think there are some people who like the thinner one, so it would be nice if they could choose it like a mole."

She also made another post here mentioning the black bit got thinner, but also her eyebrows and some other things, such as being worried about things and hoping they will add more options for things to be changed.

ローエンガルデ女性の鼻について。
グラフィックアップデートの見本は、いまよりも鼻の黒い部分が薄く感じられました。
ポチッとしっかり付いてるイメージが好みだったのですが、他の方の好みもあると思いますので、せめて濃い薄いを選べたらなあと思います。

また、ルガディン2顔に太い眉毛が欲しくフェイスペイントの眉毛を使ってるのですが、
フェイスペイントがアップデートでどう変わるのか気になります。
できればハッキリして、肌艶に左右されないマッドな質感だと嬉しいです。
アップデートでは褐色などがツヤツヤになるようなので、同じ質感になると不自然さが際立ちそうで…。
褐色のサンプルも自分の感覚ではツヤツヤすぎる気がしていて、自然なマッド質感だと嬉しいと思っています。

アップデートが楽しみですが怖いところもあるので、
アウラの眼が選択できるようになるのと同じように、他の部分についてもキャラメイクの選択肢が増えると嬉しいです。

[Iplewhelmed]

I want my nose back. Yes, I'm glad my chosen face made it through mostly fine in terms of shapes (I still recognize my character!), but the texture needs work when it comes to the lips (why are they so dark and flat?) and ESPECIALLY the nose. The little soot nose as I call it is a charm point and removing it removes part of my character's identity

[StarKorg]

The smudge changes are so sad +1 to OP
It went from being noticeable to.. almost invisible on some of my characters

[azaleai]

I agree with all of the points faiarrow has made RE: face 2 for femroes - the difference in pupil colour and the lightened smudge feel like erasure of racial traits.

I think I can get used to the colour differences even if I'm not impressed with them, but the part that really bothers me is the painted-on brow shadow.

It's not particularly easy to capture in a still, but if you go into the benchmark and choose face 2, then rotate the lighting around and watch the shadow of the brow, you can see the light pass over it as if nothing is there - it isn't acting like a shadow at all, rather more like a tattoo. The bridge is completely smooth, no definition or crease.

I grabbed one of my favourite cutscene screenshots from the current game and tried to get a similar angle/lighting in the CC to compare - the bridge of the nose looks completely different without the crease.



(Full size if you want to zoom in to look closer)

The painted on shadow is a decent approximation of the shape from some angles and lighting... such as the close up in the benchmark cutscene. But from others the illusion completely falls apart. Next to the realism of the new skin textures and hair... it looks so... wrong to me. There needs to be at least some definition on the normal map there, or the shape is completely lost, and to me it's a definiting characteristic of the face.

This may seem like nothing to others, but the stern brow is what drew me to face 2 in the first place and I think because I work in 3D modelling so I can pick out the difference a little more keenly than some would.

I'm praying it's just an issue of a missing normal map or something else that would make it unintentional rather than the dev team actively trying to smooth out the face.

[Hirskwyda]

The fading of the ash mark on the nose of my Hellsguard is my most immediate note. I've heard some people who didn't like that feature, perhaps the best move would be to have the faded mark be the new default and a darker ash mark more like the pre-rework look could be a facial feature option.

[faiarrow]

(...) The painted on shadow is a decent approximation of the shape from some angles and lighting... such as the close up in the benchmark cutscene. But from others the illusion completely falls apart. Next to the realism of the new skin textures and hair... it looks so... wrong to me. There needs to be at least some definition on the normal map there, or the shape is completely lost, and to me it's a definiting characteristic of the face.

This may seem like nothing to others, but the stern brow is what drew me to face 2 in the first place and I think because I work in 3D modelling so I can pick out the difference a little more keenly than some would.

I'm praying it's just an issue of a missing normal map or something else that would make it unintentional rather than the dev team actively trying to smooth out the face.

This hits the nail on the head for one of my biggest 'why does this feel off' mood for the resculpture of the face in that area—and it is a resculpt, the shape has been adjusted for the new bones for expressions. It's still hard baked into the flat diffuse but because of it being lightened so much, just like the nose ash, it has the unfortunate side-effect of if you're looking at that brow in any angle asides from front-on (and even then it's not flattering) it looks like the character has failed to blend in some contour and it's just a crayon-thick line off the edge of the brow.

The diagram from this post also highlights the jarring addition it seems to make to the brow:

Changes from 6.5.8 to 7.0.0 (benchmark)

• The biggest difference is the eye shape. A lot of WoLs look a lot more tired with big, heavy lids and my WoL is no different. I believe this is due to the upper lash line being quite a bit smaller, allowing for more lid space to open up. I also find the black makeup on her eyes (roegadyn feature) is lighter than it is on the left
• The eyebrows are thinner, resulting in a more down turned and angry look
• The nose smudge, like the makeup, is also lighter and I wonder if it is related to the colours or to the lighting
• The lips are missing their corners, and the lip colour layout makes the upper lip appear thinner and the lower lip appear larger

As an aside, it could be just the lighting or the shape of the eyes, but it seems to me like the nose shape is slightly different? I included it in my comparison chart below but I'm not 100% if it's a valid issue.

Here is my side by side of the two faces below, as well as a couple overlays for better comparison. If you can't read the text, it's basically the same list as above. Hope this helps somebody!

[Anarnee]

I agree with all of the points faiarrow has made RE: face 2 for femroes - the difference in pupil colour and the lightened smudge feel like erasure of racial traits.

If you've got time, there's a general Roegadyn complaints thread here and a face 2 thread here. Would be so thankful if you took the time to leave your feedback in those threads too!


There is an eye thread here too!