Give Warrior the Dark Knight treatment in regards to Bloodwhetting

[GoatOfWar]

So what's stopping you from playing the meta then....just go warrior. Zero downsides. Right?

Yeah, that is kinda what everyone is doing right now.

[Supersnow845]

I'm starting to think you don't main a tank or primarily tank in savage. Because if SE did what you wanted....then each tank would literally play the same...like literally. You could bring w/e you wanted. Might as well change PLD/WAR/GNB/DRK names to just "tank".

Because what you think is "overpowered" is different then what I think is overpowered. Hallowed Ground is OP....like zero downsides....I use it...I don't die....and I get to keep ALL my HP....no healer needed.

TBN is over powered...use it...negate ton's of damage, gain a increased free damage button.

Heart of Corundom is overpowered....like a mini excog on a VERY short cooldown.

I think each tank has it's strengths and weaknesses, but it's how you address those strengths and weaknesses is how a savage group needs to overcome. I know for a fact that I can do P12's on PLD or WAR....and my healers have to adjust...it's not a ton...but they have to address WAR's weakness of lesser self sustain then PLD's nutty every 20 seconds I can heal myself. But the fact is....my healers KNOW that as PLD....I don't need much baby sitting. WAR...they might have to toss me a regen or small shield every once in a while.

And you obviously don’t play healer at all if you think not taking damage once per 7 minutes is worth more than cancelling a tankbuster once per 4 minutes

Heart of corrundum is too strong but that’s not remotely the point being made, same as holy Shelton having too much healing, again not really the point at all, not having one tank be the best at everything is not the same as making them all play the same as you think I think I want despite me giving no indication of such, even if we went with your “interpretation” of how the tanks apparently work PLD would be ride for a nerf because according to you it holds all the upsides, the same rules apply here, it’s not homogenisation to have the tanks have different strengths and weaknesses, right now WAR has all the upsides, PLD doesn’t have WAR’s upsides but it has no downsides, GNB and DRK are all downsides besides GNB’s damage

WAR needs to be nerfed, there is no way around it

[Sqwall]

Yeah, that is kinda what everyone is doing right now.

Hmm i'm not playing WAR...I did, but after the PLD rework....pretty hard to go back. I still seem to clear. LOL my OT is a DRK. We have like zero issues on tankbusters. P12s pt 2 I use Hallowed right off the bat for tentacles. Tank Swap before Pangenesis DRK takes the second tentacle right after Pangenesis and Living Dead. Swap back. Crush Helm is Sentinel + Holy Sheltron and I intervention DRK on the 3rd hit. simple.

WAR wouldn't be any different. Just need topped off faster after the 1st tentacle hit. Pretty much it.

[Sqwall]

And you obviously don’t play healer at all if you think not taking damage once per 7 minutes is worth more than cancelling a tankbuster once per 4 minutes

Heart of corrundum is too strong but that’s not remotely the point being made, same as holy Shelton having too much healing, again not really the point at all, not having one tank be the best at everything is not the same as making them all play the same as you think I think I want despite me giving no indication of such, even if we went with your “interpretation” of how the tanks apparently work PLD would be ride for a nerf because according to you it holds all the upsides, the same rules apply here, it’s not homogenisation to have the tanks have different strengths and weaknesses, right now WAR has all the upsides, PLD doesn’t have WAR’s upsides but it has no downsides, GNB and DRK are all downsides besides GNB’s damage

WAR needs to be nerfed, there is no way around it

Well I know that I never worry about my healers in a static....don't need to....i'm not healing. All I can do is lessen the impact the healers need to heal me. That I have control over.

My main focus is Mitigation and my rotation and lining up with 2 min. Boss positioning is another thing I have to worry about...but it's pretty simple when you learn what you can get away with.

I'm always surprised by people that say they know everything about tanking and what skills need nerfed when they themselves prolly don't tank or Main Tank. Don't see me going around saying Macro Cosmos or Expedient needs to be nerfed. No.

Just like I don't know anything about healing or the oGCD rotation they use. Or how the big cooldowns line up. I don't need to. That's not my job.

My job is to rotate my mitigation and spread it out evenly, and understanding which mitigation works for the correct moment.

I do know this though. My healers do NOT complain about cheesing mechs...like ever. It's just a perk for WAR to use it more, just like it's a perk for PLD to negate ALL damage.

And I know I still get clears. And that's all...that...matters.

[HyperiusUltima]

So, I just read a lot of your responses and you haven’t really made a sound argument for WAR not to be nerfed. On top of that, you also lack perspective if you’re being ignorant about Healers - and I’m going to bring this up once - not having anything to do other than hit the 1 button.

Yes, our Tank Healing is through the roof(except for DRK). It’s causing issues for Healers as a whole. Also, I’d like to tell you I mained PLD through this tier: You obviously are focused on your sole job and unwilling to actually look at Savage application of other Tanks because your generalizations don’t paint a good picture.

Others in here that have been talking about Holmgang being an actual issue for Raid Design is very true because I don’t think I’ve seen a tier without WAR since 6.1 when its damage was low. In retrospect, a 4m CD for an Undying Invuln is very strong - the healing being trivial if your WAR is not taking autos, at that. Bloodwhetting in fact nearly trivializes boss Autos even in Savage as well along with Equilibrium’s flat heal+Regen.

Let’s go a step further as well: Efficiency. When Holmgang is used, think about it: Are you saving your other mitigation and personal mitigation with an Undying Invuln? Are you saving your healers MP and resources from damage that could’ve been over both tanks+autos? Are you saving Melee/Caster’s Feint/Addle? All of these amount up to the value that Holmgang brings. On such a low Cooldown, all you have to do is bring a WHM and have them save Benediction(180s CD btw!) to cover your HP. Any other healer has to use combined resources to bring you back to health, but oh wait! There’s also Bloodwhetting and Equilibrium! So, you actually save Healers A LOT MORE after a Holmgang if you’re in middle of Burst or throwing out FC/Inner Chaos on a Crit or Crit Direct Hit.

See what I’m getting at now? No other tank can do this and come out scot free in terms of efficiency like WAR does in terms of self-healing and Invuln efficiency. “Oh, but PLD has a complete Invuln that ignores all damage!” - Two words: SEVEN. MINUTES.

PLD may have an upside in being the king of Mitigation with HS, but it can’t compete with WAR if you’re healing all the damage you just took at a high rate. PLD was more about using your defensives properly anyhow, whereas WAR is about crapping out damage and healing off of that without a hitch.

And people are fine with WAR as it is because it makes their job in particular easier so they can focus on the DPS getting plastered by Raid-wide damage. It isn’t healthy for the Tank Role or in general balance as a whole.

I’ll repeat again what others have said in this thread: No Tank can be God. I dealt with WAR being God for 3 expansions straight since Heavensward. It does not need to be God another Expansion. Nerf its healing and Tank Healing, and we’ll have a healthier balance in general so we don’t get yet another Savage Tier clear by #OnlyWARs.

[Lyth]

WAR wouldn't be any different. Just need topped off faster after the 1st tentacle hit. Pretty much it.

P12SP2 is not a particularly exciting example, but WAR solo tanks the fight and takes both sets of Palladian Grasps. There was actually another potential use for invuln to bypass cross tethers during UAV2 if you need it, but you would have been unlikely to see that phase at 15% Echo.

Looking at the big picture, you need to ask yourself about the ongoing impact invulns are having on fight design, especially when players consistently find uses for them even outside of tankbusters. That in itself should make the devs cautious in terms of their availability and recast balance. That's especially important when there are two tanks present, each with their own invuln.

[DiscoPug]

I’ve raided with a WAR in EX and Savage, and yes - I will agree to it not being as blatant. However, when we make comparisons between WAR/PLD(as we technically should given the utilities they share nearly) one of the things I will hit is self-healing, as that is the focus of this thread.

WAR having Bloodwhetting available every 25s means someone can bank 2 FCs to heal for close to 50k HP by themselves on Siingle Target(which is similar to what PLD can heal for off of their Confiteor Combo barring Crits).

When it does have to Tank, it already has Equilibrium(which not only heals, but Regens) and Thrill for eHP or just an overall healing buff since it also heals the HP you gain for the duration.

In regards to Shake it Off(Over Time) however it is unwarranted. This heavily reminds me of how WAR had it changed abruptly mid-expansion back in Stormblood to a Shield and drove up controversy(due to PLD having the AoE Shield at the time) and drove it to being 100% used.

This is technically what we call power creep, and it’s the situation we’re in right now unless they fix it in Dawntrail.

in what scenario is 2gcd's under bloodwhetting ever healing for 50k hp

[GoatOfWar]

in what scenario is 2gcd's under bloodwhetting ever healing for 50k hp

Thrill+guaranteed crits should net you somewhere close to that in a raid yeah.

[Absurdity]

Thrill+guaranteed crits should net you somewhere close to that in a raid yeah.

Idk about that one. The highest recorded Bloodwhetting heal in Anabaseios seems to be around 16500 in a single hit, regardless of any +healing received buffs. You're not getting 50k in 2 GCDs with that.

[GoatOfWar]

Idk about that one. The highest recorded Bloodwhetting heal in Anabaseios seems to be around 16500 in a single hit, regardless of any +healing received buffs. You're not getting 50k in 2 GCDs with that.

I'll go over it when i get home. Either way, guaranteed crits+Thrill in a raid setting are nuts. Especially when you slap on some external buffs.