Give Warrior the Dark Knight treatment in regards to Bloodwhetting

[GoatOfWar]

So this is why we have homogenization.

What's next? PLD's Passive healing is to much?

If you want to talk about homogenisation, you might want to do some self reflection.
Any time another tank does something better, the Warrior community makes a huge deal out of it until it gets streamlined.
There's *literally* no reason for me to play my favourite tank over yours anymore. Warrior is just a flat upgrade now.
Warrior cannibalised any sort of job identity they ever gave to Dark knight and then at the end of the expansion people go ''Oh Drk bad cus needs rework''
And then the cycle repeats.

[Lyth]

...

The point being made is that invulns allow you to bypass tankbusters, swaps, and entire fight mechanics. That means that having a shorter recast allows you to bypass more mechanics, which in turn can change the way you execute fights entirely. You can discuss potential situational upsides to the other invulns, but there are no downsides to Holmgang that directly result in less uses than the others. Holmgang gives you the power to potentially delete one mechanic every four minutes, making it the most powerful defensive action in the game.

I think there are two directions that you can go with this. The first is to add in a drawback that renders it undesirable to use under certain situations. A Holmgang is a duel to the death held on a small island, or holm. Perhaps leaving a small circular ground effect while the effect is active gives you a coward debuff and removes the invuln effect. Perhaps leaving the zone kills you. Now you might have justification for having a one to three minute shorter recast, as you may not want to use it at all on some mechanics if movement is required. The other option is to give all the invulns the same recast, and give them all unique drawbacks to differentiate them.

I do think it's funny that you're discussing homogenization and suddenly looking for an 'identity' for WAR, especially after the job design has been built from years of robbing the identity of the other tanks. It is the epitome of low risk, high reward gameplay.

[Sqwall]

If you want to talk about homogenisation, you might want to do some self reflection.
Any time another tank does something better, the Warrior community makes a huge deal out of it until it gets streamlined.
There's *literally* no reason for me to play my favourite tank over yours anymore. Warrior is just a flat upgrade now.
Warrior cannibalised any sort of job identity they ever gave to Dark knight and then at the end of the expansion people go ''Oh Drk bad cus needs rework''
And then the cycle repeats.

I'm sorry but i'm just going to have to disagree. I'm not making a huge deal out of what WAR doesn't have at all. I want WAR to be different and unique. DRK can be different and unique to. I don't really care.

But when you have people crying at the moon about about how WAR having 1 thing better then other tanks...I would argue...PLD is better at self sustain then WAR but lacks some in damage. Simple trade off.

I disagree that you can't play your favorite tank because WAR is just better...that's just silly imo.

I can play w/e tank I want....and still clear....(maybe not GNB because I suck at GNB lol)

[Sqwall]

I do think it's funny that you're discussing homogenization and suddenly looking for an 'identity' for WAR, especially after the job design has been built from years of robbing the identity of the other tanks. It is the epitome of low risk, high reward gameplay.

This is subjective. I would say PLD is LOW risk as I have WAY more of a defensive tool kit then WAR. Not to mention Holy Sheltron is ridiculous mitigation and healing that is passive....no effort needed.

PLD can also be range. To me...that was an upside over warriors pathetic tomahawk. The simple fact that I can do my burst a mile away is awesome.

[GoatOfWar]

I'm starting to think you don't main a tank or primarily tank in savage. Because if SE did what you wanted....then each tank would literally play the same...like literally. You could bring w/e you wanted. Might as well change PLD/WAR/GNB/DRK names to just "tank".

Because what you think is "overpowered" is different then what I think is overpowered. Hallowed Ground is OP....like zero downsides....I use it...I don't die....and I get to keep ALL my HP....no healer needed.

TBN is over powered...use it...negate ton's of damage, gain a increased free damage button.

Heart of Corundom is overpowered....like a mini excog on a VERY short cooldown.

I think each tank has it's strengths and weaknesses, but it's how you address those strengths and weaknesses is how a savage group needs to overcome. I know for a fact that I can do P12's on PLD or WAR....and my healers have to adjust...it's not a ton...but they have to address WAR's weakness of lesser self sustain then PLD's nutty every 20 seconds I can heal myself. But the fact is....my healers KNOW that as PLD....I don't need much baby sitting. WAR...they might have to toss me a regen or small shield every once in a while.

What the hell did i even read...

TBN increased and free damage? It's 2024 and people still don't know how this ability works.
HoC OP? At worst it's a BW sidegrade, trading a shield, guaranteed crit heals and healing less overall for 10% more mit.
And hallowed ground OP? It's *LITERALLY* the worst invuln... It has nearly TWICE the cooldown of Holmgang. The secondary effects of invulns are barely even an afterthought.
Only the cooldowns matter.
Also, Warrior's LESSER sustain? Are you actually being serious?

[Sqwall]

LOL do you even know how long a single savage pull takes? 8-11 mins at the most? Most if not all Tank Busters happen within the first 30 seconds or a 1min mark.

How is TBN not free damage? Blood weapon is used on opener regains MP, TBN on the MT on pull....how is this not free damage with a simple Dark Arts proc? This is literally what my OT does...every...single...pull. He's getting his MP back anyway with Blood Weapon.

I'll give you the GNB HoC as I don't really play GNB...not my cup of tea.

Hallowed in a 7 min reclear....is HANDS DOWN stronger then Holmgang....no loss of HP....no healers healing me....no extra mitigation used....no loss of DPS from healers. Can't use holmgang all but once if the fight is over....soooo.

[GoatOfWar]

LOL do you even know how long a single savage pull takes? 8-11 mins at the most?

How is TBN not free damage? Blood weapon is used on opener regains MP, TBN on the MT on pull....how is this not free damage with a simple Dark Arts proc? This is literally what my OT does...every...single...pull. He's getting his MP back anyway with Blood Weapon.

I'll give you the GNB HoC as I don't really play GNB...not my cup of tea.

Hallowed in a 7 min reclear....is HANDS DOWN stronger then Holmgang....no loss of HP....no healers healing me....no extra mitigation used....no loss of DPS from healers. Can't use holmgang all but once if the fight is over....soooo.

TBN in your opener is used to prevent overcapping on mana.
TBN costs 3000 mana, you break the shield, and get refunded the Edge of shadow you would have used, which also costs 3000 mana.
There's nothing free, and the Edge does not do higher damage.
If you buy a shirt for 50 dollars and refund it, you didn't make any money.
As for the whole ''Hallowed ground OP'' No, it's the worst invuln. It's secondary application is nearly completely irrelevant.
Again, only the cooldown matters. Entire tiers have been warped around Holmgang.

[Sqwall]

TBN in your opener is used to prevent overcapping on mana.
TBN costs 3000 mana, you break the shield, and get refunded the Edge of shadow you would have used, which also costs 3000 mana.
There's nothing free, and the Edge does not do higher damage.
If you buy a shirt for 50 dollars and refund it, you didn't make any money.

I never said it did higher damage....I meant it just increased your damage. If you didn't use TBN that damage wouldn't be there at all.

What if the shirt got you a job by looking clean dressed in an interview? I got a job....and I got my $50 back.

[GoatOfWar]

I never said it did higher damage....I meant it just increased your damage. If you didn't use TBN that damage wouldn't be there at all.

What if the shirt got you a job by looking clean dressed in an interview? I got a job....and I got my $50 back.

The analogy doesn't work. The other tanks get their ''suit'' for free.
Having to use your mitigation to prevent overcapping on your damage resource is a downside.
And Dark knight is the only tank in the game that has to use it's mitigation to prevent overcapping on it's damage resource.
It's not a good thing. You don't get ''more'' damage than the others just because the mechanic exists.
They streamlined the tank dps output, so it's actually better to have a simplified damage rotation rather than one with jank where you have to use your mit to prevent overcap.
Warrior wouldn't become a better tank if you gave it an identical mechanic. There's no inherent advantage to speak of here.

[Sqwall]

The analogy doesn't work. The other tanks get their ''suit'' for free.
Having to use your mitigation to prevent overcapping on your damage resource is a downside.
And Dark knight is the only tank in the game that has to use it's mitigation to prevent overcapping on it's damage resource.
It's not a good thing. You don't get ''more'' damage than the others just because the mechanic exists.
They streamlined the tank dps output, so it's actually better to have a simplified damage rotation rather than one with jank where you have to use your mit to prevent overcap.
Warrior wouldn't become a better tank if you gave it an identical mechanic. There's no inherent advantage to speak of here.

So what's stopping you from playing the meta then....just go warrior. Zero downsides. Right?