Nerf gil profit from submarine

[TwistedTea]

We've come back to "talk about plugins is against the rules, but also we won't actually do anything about it"

Except this is objectively untrue when people do actually get banned for talking about plugins in the sub discord. You on the other hand are pointing to all the people who didn't get banned and say that the entire discord promotes automation.

Either way I don't care about plugins, the problem is fight club and everything it incentivizes.

What does Fight Club incentivize?

House hoarding?

Even in this thread it has already been pointed out: the root cause of insufficient mediums/larges is artificial scarcity created by SE

There never would have been insufficient supply if SE had gone for fully instanced housing right from the start.

There currently isn't a shortage of small plots even on populated SE servers. My own server has ~134 small plots available. Both personal/FC. Many of which have not had a single bid in months. Coeurl is considered a highly populated server. Even had the Congested label on it, until relatively recently.

The 2 main groups of multi-house owners:
1. House/dream plot collecters
2. Sublords - mostly go for uncontested small FC plots

These 2 groups might overlap often but the distinction is important.
The house collecters would hoard even without the FC workshop - so a submarine nerf is not going to suddenly free up their housing collections.

The sublords who are in it purely for the gil usually go for uncontested Goblet FC small plots.

Some might ask what about the RMT house sellers?
I'm not addressing those simply because RMT is clearly against SE's TOS.

Currently when many players complain, there are not enough houses, they are complaining that there are not enough mediums/larges.

Again the root cause is SE's decision to go with artificial scarcity.

House hoarding would not be an issue if there was unlimited supply or close to.
RMT house selling is profitable because of the artificial scarcity.

[ZiraZ]

Except this is objectively untrue when people do actually get banned for talking about plugins in the sub discord. You on the other hand are pointing to all the people who didn't get banned and say that the entire discord promotes automation.



What does Fight Club incentivize?

House hoarding?

Even in this thread it has already been pointed out: the root cause of insufficient mediums/larges is artificial scarcity created by SE

There never would have been insufficient supply if SE had gone for fully instanced housing right from the start.

There currently isn't a shortage of small plots even on populated SE servers. My own server has ~134 small plots available. Both personal/FC. Many of which have not had a single bid in months. Coeurl is considered a highly populated server. Even had the Congested label on it, until relatively recently.

The 2 main groups of multi-house owners:
1. House/dream plot collecters
2. Sublords - mostly go for uncontested small FC plots

These 2 groups might overlap often but the distinction is important.
The house collecters would hoard even without the FC workshop - so a submarine nerf is not going to suddenly free up their housing collections.

The sublords who are in it purely for the gil usually go for uncontested Goblet FC small plots.

Some might ask what about the RMT house sellers?
I'm not addressing those simply because RMT is clearly against SE's TOS.

Currently when many players complain, there are not enough houses, they are complaining that there are not enough mediums/larges.

Again the root cause is SE's decision to go with artificial scarcity.

House hoarding would not be an issue if there was unlimited supply or close to.
RMT house selling is profitable because of the artificial scarcity.

You forgot the part about the sublords are also in it for the resale, of course this is all about the large and mediums.
Removing fight club would absolutely free up future larges and mediums because many of those are tied to the longcon sub resale scheme. There is absolutely no reason for them to stick to smalls when resale value is astronomical, they are incentivized to double dip. The larger the sublord entity becomes the more bids they get to bid, win and upgrade into a large to then resell for a gil cap.

[TwistedTea]

You forgot the part about the sublords are also in it for the resale, of course this is all about the large and mediums.
Removing fight club would absolutely free up future larges and mediums because many of those are tied to the longcon sub resale scheme. There is absolutely no reason for them to stick to smalls when resale value is astronomical, they are incentivized to double dip. The larger the sublord entity becomes the more bids they get to bid, win and upgrade into a large to then resell for a gil cap.

Some sublords?

But that would apply to the entire playerbase who participates in housing.

Some sublords are also house collecters/hoaders.
They have no interest in reselling.

The demand for mediums/larges will always far exceed what is available simply because of their scarcity.

Even if you remove every single house collecter/sublord.

Most of the demand is coming from personal housing not FC housing.

[ZiraZ]

Some sublords?

But that would apply to the entire playerbase who participates in housing.

Some sublords are also house collecters/hoaders.
They have no interest in reselling.

The demand for mediums/larges will always far exceed what is available simply because of their scarcity.

Even if you remove every single house collecter/sublord.

Most of the demand is coming from personal housing not FC housing.

Problem is fight club incentivizes these people to own a large amount of characters and provides them with an unlimited amount of passive gil to invest without loss into larger house bid spamming, thus creating a disproportionate amount of demand generated by very few actual players even if they don't intend or cant resell
and again just because the discord rules and moderators don't allow certain topics to be discussed doesn't mean you won't stumble into them when looking for info about fight club, just like how you can very easily end up in housing reseller discords just from people talking about it on the sub discord, it's the slipperiest slope there is, fight club causes too many problems

[Burmecia]

It’s a massive undertaking to do it by yourself.

As the only person who workshop crafts in my FC, aka when we need airship/submarine build or updated of new wall for the house, of tier 3 buff cylinders, I can't but attest this.
Thanks SE for opening the damn thing so that you don't have to beg and plead 3 more people to come sit around awkwardly while you wish your inventory is not missing something silly. "...i'm sorry guys, i'll gotta run to buy 3 more Scintillant Ingots, just stay where you are please, I'll be back right away!!"

Make hard PvE content that gives gil and has monster itemdrops maybe. Stop catering to solo players, this is a MMORPG.

So, not by working and planning, but by luck, you must make some money? I was lucky and got 2 coffin lids back in the day when Void Ark was brandspanking new and those things sold 10mil a pop. 20mil extra gil sure made relatively new player happy, but I wouldn't want RNG to be my main money maker.
SE needs to set up effctive MB taxing to rein in that inflation, maybe interesting new money sink if it has gone out of hand.
New 50mil mounts, anyone? :'D 100mil mount?

[Jojoya]

My own server has ~134 small plots available. Both personal/FC. Many of which have not had a single bid in months. Coeurl is considered a highly populated server. Even had the Congested label on it, until relatively recently.

This made me curious so I just looked for myself. I didn't come up with 134 smalls but it was over 100 and mostly in the mixed and personal wards. The Empyreum FC wards had a fair number of smalls but there were almost no smalls in the FC wards of the other districts.

Even more interesting were the dozen mediums and 2 larges I saw. Not going to come close to meeting the demand for the larger plots but more than I was expecting.

You forgot the part about the sublords are also in it for the resale, of course this is all about the large and mediums.
Removing fight club would absolutely free up future larges and mediums because many of those are tied to the longcon sub resale scheme. There is absolutely no reason for them to stick to smalls when resale value is astronomical, they are incentivized to double dip. The larger the sublord entity becomes the more bids they get to bid, win and upgrade into a large to then resell for a gil cap.

Here you are once again going off the deep end with your sub farm/resale conspiracy theories.

The "sublords" aren't reselling their houses. If they were into resale, they wouldn't bother setting up workshops. It takes longer to get a workshop generating a decent profit than it would take to sell the house. Unlocking sectors takes time. Ranking up the subs high enough to get the necessary stats to make routes like Fight Club worthwhile takes time.

It's time that doesn't exist if the point is to resell the house. Resellers don't want to be sitting on a house for 6-7 months.

If you're genuinely convinced you're correct, stop with the "feelycraft" and collect the data from at least your own world if not all of NA and share it with us. Just how many medium and large FC houses owned by "sublords" are there? What criteria did you use to determine that it was a "sublord" who owned the plot? If you go back 3 months later, has the name of the FC owner changed on those houses?

[Reinha]

The "sublords" aren't reselling their houses. If they were into resale, they wouldn't bother setting up workshops. It takes longer to get a workshop generating a decent profit than it would take to sell the house. Unlocking sectors takes time. Ranking up the subs high enough to get the necessary stats to make routes like Fight Club worthwhile takes time.

It's time that doesn't exist if the point is to resell the house. Resellers don't want to be sitting on a house for 6-7 months.

Exactly. And removing the submarine money would only encourage sublords to swap tactics and make gil with resales of mediums and larges. That can be done every 30 days if there are no submarines being built. They probably have a hundred characters to enter the bidding game with, are people sure they want to compete with that instead of them simply continuing to make money with unwanted small houses?

Mounts, minions and other goods from voyages sell for peanuts in comparison and would make this content not worth the tens of millions of gil and months of work it takes to even get started. Unless... the drops were unique and untradable, so that finishing the voyage yourself was the only way to obtain them. Fcs could utilize the rank system to allow all their members to benefit. I could add a few rare mounts to my collection and they would be worth the investment, if gil was out of the picture.

[LianaThorne]

The "sublords" aren't reselling their houses. If they were into resale, they wouldn't bother setting up workshops. It takes longer to get a workshop generating a decent profit than it would take to sell the house. Unlocking sectors takes time. Ranking up the subs high enough to get the necessary stats to make routes like Fight Club worthwhile takes time.

I can't really post proof without risking an account ban but this isn't true either. Having full submarines on a resell shoots the price up ridiculously compared to a barebones house. People will raise houses with maxed subs and then sell them for gil cap depending on the plot they're attached to (LB 41 for example). It's really not weird for multi-owners in the sub business to also sell off some of their houses when they want to drop accounts either to recoup their investment. You could probably go onto any of the black market discords rn and find a sub owner selling their houses lol.

[StouterTaru]

So strict I can find over 200 search results directly mentioning and discussing plugins
now that's next level strict!
but go on keep brigading people from the discord server into the forums the second someone utters the word "subs", gotta defend the fight club at all costs!

The discussion about plugins in this thread is as in-depth as the discussion about plugins over there

[Asako]

Took me a year to get 2 submarines to the level where I can farm some money, just waiting on the third. Considering the amount of money and time I put in I think it's absolutely fair. Just knock those scrubs who own multiple plots out of all but 1 of their houses and we're good to go. 1 house per account is more than enough.