About yoshi P comments on multiplayer for Dawntrail

[ty_taurus]

Perhaps it's worth restating this then:



Maybe you missed that part? I don't think you and I are in disagreement here.

My post wasn't meant to be in opposition to yours. I was just trying to expand on your points from my own perspective, because I felt that there was more that could be said.

[Niroken]

I feel like currently this the least multiplayer this game has ever felt to me.

I remember saying that a lonnnnggg time ago. I do disagree with "jaded and mean", I find it's quite the opposite, at least using in-game methods of communication. The strict rules and regulations has the threat of the hammer of justice raining down upon them that it leaves interactions feeling very... sterile.

Besides that, there isn't very much incentivizing interaction in the game. It's just too easy to ignore other people, in fact it's actually more efficient because of PF and DF. Why wait for friends and guildmates when you can get the very easy and very accessible content done now? The only content that does incentivize interaction is things like Hunts and Eureka because it forces you into groups to be efficient.

[Ardeth]

I remember saying that a lonnnnggg time ago. I do disagree with "jaded and mean", I find it's quite the opposite, at least using in-game methods of communication. The strict rules and regulations has the threat of the hammer of justice raining down upon them that it leaves interactions feeling very... sterile.

Besides that, there isn't very much incentivizing interaction in the game. It's just too easy to ignore other people, in fact, it's actually more efficient because of PF and DF. Why wait for friends and guildmates when you can get the very easy and very accessible content done now? The only content that does incentivize interaction is things like Hunts and Eureka because it forces you into groups to be efficient.

You don't have to be overtly mean to avoid getting banned. I've seen loads of people be passive-aggressive enough to get the point across.

And honestly when I do Hunts and Eureka, I feel it even less. It's like the social aspect of it all has eroded. But I also have been having an absolute nightmare of a time finding a decent FC. I'm more than likely going to leave Dynamis soon. There's just nothing here for me anymore. But it might be FFXIV as a whole that I've grown beyond. It's hard to say and scary to think about.

[Souljacker]

Or EW should have had something like Eureka and Bozja.

I wonder why they didn't? There's still a lot of folks playing both those contents - I was just catching up Bozja and never wanted for either a farming party or members to get through Dalriada\Castrum. It's popular enough content that an expansion and a half later, it's being played. Longer for Eureka. That was as close to XI style content I think we will ever get, and even the Eureka formula didn't survive the playerbase long enough to be revisited in its original form in Bozja.

For the rest of the game, it's impossible to be social. There's literally no downtime, for anything, at all. You're pulling wall to wall, no strategy, just pull everything and AoE it down, never stop pressing a button, get out ASAP. When exactly can you talk to your party members? In XI, party chatter happened all the time, waiting for TP, mana regen, etc. Battles were not as twitchy, made for a more social experience. But the playerbase would literally revolt, I think, if anything close to that was introduced here. Slow trash pulls with CC? Weaponskills that were actual finishers + skillchains + manaburst you could coordinate with party? I would love to see less completely braindead pulls but all anyone cares about is their numbers up in ACT and never stop pressing a button. Party members from the queue? Might as well be NPCs, thankfully we at least have trust dungeons in case forbid we want to explore nooks and crannies\papers lying about to be read. If I'm going to go through a dungeon with nothing but "o7" and "gg tyfp", might as well do it with trusts that won't complain I lagged to read some lore.

I don't know the answer, and I don't have a better game to play at the moment, but it feels like we're at a place with XIV where they are at the top of the heap by default because of franchise fatigue with other titles, and the second someone manages to strike the balance between beloved lore (whether something brand new, or some other established game) and engaging gameplay + true social experience, they will lose the crown. And it will be all their own fault. I can't think of a franchise with a richer, more wildly storied history to draw inspiration from, and they are not delivering when they use any of it. And they are not delivering anything new.

Here's to hoping Dawntrail completely changes the direction of the game!

[MonteCristo]

I wonder why they didn't? There's still a lot of folks playing both those contents - I was just catching up Bozja and never wanted for either a farming party or members to get through Dalriada\Castrum. It's popular enough content that an expansion and a half later, it's being played. Longer for Eureka. That was as close to XI style content I think we will ever get, and even the Eureka formula didn't survive the playerbase long enough to be revisited in its original form in Bozja.

For the rest of the game, it's impossible to be social. There's literally no downtime, for anything, at all. You're pulling wall to wall, no strategy, just pull everything and AoE it down, never stop pressing a button, get out ASAP. When exactly can you talk to your party members? In XI, party chatter happened all the time, waiting for TP, mana regen, etc. Battles were not as twitchy, made for a more social experience. But the playerbase would literally revolt, I think, if anything close to that was introduced here. Slow trash pulls with CC? Weaponskills that were actual finishers + skillchains + manaburst you could coordinate with party? I would love to see less completely braindead pulls but all anyone cares about is their numbers up in ACT and never stop pressing a button. Party members from the queue? Might as well be NPCs, thankfully we at least have trust dungeons in case forbid we want to explore nooks and crannies\papers lying about to be read. If I'm going to go through a dungeon with nothing but "o7" and "gg tyfp", might as well do it with trusts that won't complain I lagged to read some lore.

I don't know the answer, and I don't have a better game to play at the moment, but it feels like we're at a place with XIV where they are at the top of the heap by default because of franchise fatigue with other titles, and the second someone manages to strike the balance between beloved lore (whether something brand new, or some other established game) and engaging gameplay + true social experience, they will lose the crown. And it will be all their own fault. I can't think of a franchise with a richer, more wildly storied history to draw inspiration from, and they are not delivering when they use any of it. And they are not delivering anything new.

Here's to hoping Dawntrail completely changes the direction of the game!

Well spoken..u brought back memories lol i have thought about skillchains bursts or TP in years

[MonteCristo]

https://www.gamesradar.com/final-fan...last-10-years/

[Niroken]

But I also have been having an absolute nightmare of a time finding a decent FC. I'm more than likely going to leave Dynamis soon. There's just nothing here for me anymore. But it might be FFXIV as a whole that I've grown beyond. It's hard to say and scary to think about.

It would depend on how you define decent. Majority of the interaction usually involves the FC leader and a small group. Either your in that group or you have a smaller circle of people in it's own self contained group (usually with a friend prior to the FC) or your there for buffs. Very common for guilds in MMORPG's, seen this play out in every MMORPG that I've played. The game mechanics also push this as most content is 8 people or less.

[Ardeth]

It would depend on how you define decent. Majority of the interaction usually involves the FC leader and a small group. Either your in that group or you have a smaller circle of people in it's own self contained group (usually with a friend prior to the FC) or your there for buffs. Very common for guilds in MMORPG's, seen this play out in every MMORPG that I've played. The game mechanics also push this as most content is 8 people or less.

I'm well aware of how guilds work. I'm just picky when it comes to how anti-social the majority of the ones I find tend to be.

[Valence]

For the rest of the game, it's impossible to be social. There's literally no downtime, for anything, at all. You're pulling wall to wall, no strategy, just pull everything and AoE it down, never stop pressing a button, get out ASAP. When exactly can you talk to your party members? In XI, party chatter happened all the time, waiting for TP, mana regen, etc. Battles were not as twitchy, made for a more social experience. But the playerbase would literally revolt, I think, if anything close to that was introduced here. Slow trash pulls with CC? Weaponskills that were actual finishers + skillchains + manaburst you could coordinate with party? I would love to see less completely braindead pulls but all anyone cares about is their numbers up in ACT and never stop pressing a button. Party members from the queue? Might as well be NPCs, thankfully we at least have trust dungeons in case forbid we want to explore nooks and crannies\papers lying about to be read. If I'm going to go through a dungeon with nothing but "o7" and "gg tyfp", might as well do it with trusts that won't complain I lagged to read some lore.

You definitely put a finger on one of the things that make everything impersonal. The most of player interaction one gets is in extreme and savage prog ironically enough between pulls, when there is something be explained or talked about. And even then in PF, it often ends up with a disband instead. The game has a way to generate a certain mindset of entitlement that considers that if a fast clear or true progress doesn't happen right now, then it's obviously on everybody else in the team and one would definitely have a better chance by leaving and finding a better party. And tbh I don't think it's just XIV in general, it's just how gaming has evolved over time. People those days also sometimes seem more interested into hating on each other or gatekeeping content than actually collaborating, but on that front I honestly think XIV is doing way better than 95% of online games, because the bad apples are still a minority. If anything, I think we still have the right community for a game experience that introduces more pauses and interactions instead of going for the modern fast food automach -> clear a dungeon in 10min with barely a hello.

But this is why I always advocate for a lot more RNG and unpredictable elements. It forces players to pause and consider their options carefully before going further. RNG doesnt have to be hard. RNG just has to offer many options forcing people to stop mass pulling like monkeys, take a breath, and think, and it works the exact same way in trials, raids, etc.

[SieyaM]

It wouldn’t. And we know this because the game did actually exist before Shadowbringers, where the game actually did have more complex job elements, and the game was never that “hellscape” before.

And back then people wanted skill trees and set bonuses and even more complex job elements and rotations. People have been dissatisfied with the ease of XIV since 2.0.