About yoshi P comments on multiplayer for Dawntrail

[strawberrycake]

The one thing I find funny about stuff like this is that when the community was talking about changing XIV back in HW, a harder expansion, people said no don't change it, you're gonna make it worse. Same for Stormblood and Shadowbringers.

At this point it feels less like the changes themselves are an issue and more like this community is filled with contrarians.

[ty_taurus]

It might not have been a hellscape, but there's certainly a balancing act that stretches back all the way to XI. I remember DRG before the 2h buff. And when ToAU came out and half the mobs had reflect and the other half were imps, forget your BLM. As hard as they are trying to not be like that game, I think in many ways they wouldn't have a choice if they brought back meaningful skill trees\subjobs etc and we'll see it all over again. History repeats, and it's been made clear many times over they didn't learned much from their own.

It's a very valid concern, but for all its faults, I liked the formula we had in XI better.

There has to be some kind of happy medium between FFXI meripo meta and braindead 4 mans and other such content we have here. There just has to be.

I think it's worth stating that XIV is not XI. They are two completely different games with completely different player environments. Just because people are asking for more agency back into the game generally speaking does not mean the alternative is FFXI meta. That is a leap in design on a galactic scale with plenty of planets in between, many of which can sit comfortably within a goldilocks zone of balance, approachability, and depth.

In regards to trees specifically, there are absolutely ways that FFXIV could introduce some semblance of skill trees. I don't think it's mandatory, but it's very plausible. There are too many possible ways an idea can be approached. It's silly to suggest that it's not possible for any of the literal billions of possibilities to be viable and balanced.

[MonteCristo]

I think it's worth stating that XIV is not XI. They are two completely different games with completely different player environments. Just because people are asking for more agency back into the game generally speaking does not mean the alternative is FFXI meta. That is a leap in design on a galactic scale with plenty of planets in between, many of which can sit comfortably within a goldilocks zone of balance, approachability, and depth.

In regards to trees specifically, there are absolutely ways that FFXIV could introduce some semblance of skill trees. I don't think it's mandatory, but it's very plausible. There are too many possible ways an idea can be approached. It's silly to suggest that it's not possible for any of the literal billions of possibilities to be viable and balanced.

Would love something along the lines of merit the point system but interesting to see what they do either way. Just hope they dont just keep raising level cap

[Ardeth]

I feel like currently this the least multiplayer this game has ever felt to me. Every player is jaded and mean. There's no heart in any of it. Or at least that is how it feels. Boring or not.

[Nestama]

The most I really want to see in DT is interesting mechanics even in places like dungeons. ARR had a few neat mechanics for their bosses back in the day (Tonberry King, for example. You had to hold off killing the Tonberry adds until after he used Everybody's Grudge so the tank wouldn't get immediately destroyed), but now we're just getting the same left/right/in/out, stack, spread and dodge the AoE attacks, but with a different coat of paint. Even Dark Elf's main gimmick (Hexing Staves) is just Ladon Lord's Pyric Spheres. I just wanna see more unique/interesting mechanics and "dodge" not being the only thing to do... but i guess with trust npcs that might be too much of an ask :/

Asura could have been better (4man dungeon boss in an 8man trial) and the Myth raids in general should have been better and more alliance focused than... whatever the hell it was (4man dungeon in 24man raids clothing).

[Gullis]

The most I really want to see in DT is interesting mechanics even in places like dungeons. ARR had a few neat mechanics for their bosses back in the day (Tonberry King, for example. You had to hold off killing the Tonberry adds until after he used Everybody's Grudge so the tank wouldn't get immediately destroyed), but now we're just getting the same left/right/in/out, stack, spread and dodge the AoE attacks, but with a different coat of paint. Even Dark Elf's main gimmick (Hexing Staves) is just Ladon Lord's Pyric Spheres. I just wanna see more unique/interesting mechanics and "dodge" not being the only thing to do... but i guess with trust npcs that might be too much of an ask :/

Asura could have been better (4man dungeon boss in an 8man trial) and the Myth raids in general should have been better and more alliance focused than... whatever the hell it was (4man dungeon in 24man raids clothing).

have to make them easy so trust can do them lmao

[znushu]

I kinda find it amusing that people here on the forums admitted to hating FFXI when that's a true ff multiplayer focused product meanwhile FFXIV has been slowly becoming a single player mmo.

Like legit, most of my adventures in FFXIV is just me doing some solo content and when I need to raid or run a dungeon I simply click a button and poof; im in a party in a corridor style group combat area that's honestly so easy to navigate that I'll admit I have ran through some with my eyes closed and even if I'm hated for stating this I'm just going to say it in bold text

If you wanted a multiplayer Final Fantasy then you shouldn't have demanded Yoshi and the team copy WoW since 1.0 played like FF11 but with a worse UI and bad keybindings. the rest was a pretty decent mmo and yes, I did rewatch a streamer who archived his whole adventure in 1.0 and I failed to see why it was hated outside of it not catering to being solo.

Basically what Im saying is that if you want a more multiplayer focused mmo then you should just bring back 1.0. as it's own standalone game which yes, yoshi. I will pay a sub for that game, so please let me give you extra money

[Nestama]

Or EW should have had something like Eureka and Bozja.

[Nebelheim]

I kinda find it amusing that people here on the forums admitted to hating FFXI when that's a true ff multiplayer focused product meanwhile FFXIV has been slowly becoming a single player mmo.

Like legit, most of my adventures in FFXIV is just me doing some solo content and when I need to raid or run a dungeon I simply click a button and poof; im in a party in a corridor style group combat area that's honestly so easy to navigate that I'll admit I have ran through some with my eyes closed and even if I'm hated for stating this I'm just going to say it in bold text

If you wanted a multiplayer Final Fantasy then you shouldn't have demanded Yoshi and the team copy WoW since 1.0 played like FF11 but with a worse UI and bad keybindings. the rest was a pretty decent mmo and yes, I did rewatch a streamer who archived his whole adventure in 1.0 and I failed to see why it was hated outside of it not catering to being solo.

Basically what Im saying is that if you want a more multiplayer focused mmo then you should just bring back 1.0. as it's own standalone game which yes, yoshi. I will pay a sub for that game, so please let me give you extra money

Some people admitting to hating ff11 seems to have either never played it and heard about old stories from old players of the game or people who played jobs that never got an invite to a party and became jaded from the game or didn't like the "forced" socialization or how "hard" it was and having to work together and didn't hold there hands. Unfortunately ff11 also became solo focused up until the high end of endgame but that's mostly because of the low plyer base it has now so it needed systems to make it easier to get into.

[Souljacker]

I think it's worth stating that XIV is not XI. They are two completely different games with completely different player environments. Just because people are asking for more agency back into the game generally speaking does not mean the alternative is FFXI meta. That is a leap in design on a galactic scale with plenty of planets in between, many of which can sit comfortably within a goldilocks zone of balance, approachability, and depth.

In regards to trees specifically, there are absolutely ways that FFXIV could introduce some semblance of skill trees. I don't think it's mandatory, but it's very plausible. There are too many possible ways an idea can be approached. It's silly to suggest that it's not possible for any of the literal billions of possibilities to be viable and balanced.

Perhaps it's worth restating this then:

There has to be some kind of happy medium between FFXI meripo meta and braindead 4 mans and other such content we have here. There just has to be.

Maybe you missed that part? I don't think you and I are in disagreement here.