I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[Nizzi]

Ah yes, Black Mage, the job renowned for rotational complexity and high APM.

Black Mage gameplay is almost entirely contingent on positioning and movement tools. It's a strategy game, not a mechanical complexity game.

"high APM" doesnt equally complexity at all, nonstandard black mage is far beyond literally any job in the game, especially melees lmao

[Lyth]

The primary post string was about rotational complexity, not whatever subjective hype about difficulty that you've bought into about a particular job. I think Civilization can also be a complex game, but at the end of the day it's still turn-based. Just like BLM gameplay, in fact.

[Nadda]

The discourse moved past that question months and years ago, as best as I've seen.

I can't recall the last time I saw someone propose that healers have a strict rotational loop for their DPS actions. That only works if you strip out GCD heals and rely entirely on oGCDs, similarly to how tanks work with respect to mitigations.

The more common stance is in fact the opposite: dial down the power of oGCDs heals, make GCDs heals interesting again, and increase DPS complexity while preserving the flexibility needed to use GCD heals as needed. (There's also usually a related desire to make fights hit harder.) To the extent that anyone talks about a "rotation" in reference to whatever a healer does when they're not healing, it's a sort of imprecision carried over from the other roles. To the extent that anyone compares healer DPS actions to tank DPS actions, it's to make a point about overall complexity, not the tank's strict rotational DPS loop.

That's fair. Yes, I'd agree with that premise then.

[Nizzi]

The primary post string was about rotational complexity, not whatever subjective hype about difficulty that you've bought into about a particular job. I think Civilization can also be a complex game, but at the end of the day it's still turn-based. Just like BLM gameplay, in fact.

"subjective hype" lmao you are not a serious person, especially considering you associate the phrase "rotational complexity" with melee jobs
you are not as smart as you think you are

[Lyth]

It's just a difference of opinion then, I suppose. I don't see what the hype is about. I'm not convinced that you do either. It's probably better to gain a few more levels before opining on the subject.

[AnotherPerson]

Ah yes, Black Mage, the job renowned for rotational complexity and high APM.

Black Mage gameplay is almost entirely contingent on positioning and movement tools. It's a strategy game, not a mechanical complexity game.

Casters had both. Old Summoner had rotational complexity / high APM before it was reworked in Endwalker. Black Mage had slow APM but very dynamic rotation that changes based on the encounter and what your party members do. RDM sat squarely in the middle of the two.

Casters had both dynamic complexity and rotational complexity. Now they just have dynamic complexity vs what SMN is currently.

[Nizzi]

It's just a difference of opinion then, I suppose. I don't see what the hype is about. I'm not convinced that you do either. It's probably better to gain a few more levels before opining on the subject.

lmao @ you, this is also you btw:

Context is always important. BLM has played at half the APM of other jobs since at least Heavensward. That means for every one action you perform, another player is executing two.

Movement mechanics affect everyone. Boss movement specifically affects tanks and melee. This is doubly apparent when you add in positional gameplay, because the smallest changes can change boss orientation without altering their position. People specifically seek out melee because they're looking for that additional layer of gameplay detail and depth.

"people specifically seek out melee because they're looking for that additional layer of gameplay detail and depth."

it's no wonder you don't understand BLM when you unironically type this and believe it too LOOOOL

[Lyth]

...

I think a lot of jobs are significantly less complex than they were previously. The problem is that fights tend to be static or have a set series of fixed permutations, so you can generally anticipate every outcome in advance. What makes Casters interesting is the planning aspect and anticipation around that. But that's not really a byproduct of rotation per se, it's more a byproduct of cast times and having interesting tools that allow for more or less movement situationally.

That's also why I don't see Healers' dps rotations as a 'rotational' problem. You could add more variety in DPS tools and more timers to manage without really changing the difficulty a whole lot. It may make things subjectively more fun, but that's also another issue and much more difficult to qualify.

[Saraide]

People will really say literally anything in opposition to this. Suddenly Black mage isnt a complex job anymore. We are positively reaching.

[ASkellington]

People will really say literally anything in opposition to this. Suddenly Black mage isnt a complex job anymore. We are positively reaching.

Honestly I don't even care but to get this point across:

Problem: Healers are bored because we do not have enough out going damage to heal the party + tank and so we fill our time doing basically a 1 button rotation + a DoT for the majority of a fight.

Our proposed fix: We want both an increase in damage frequency and a less boring rotation however it looks (it doesn't have to be a 1-2-3 combo on the GCD ffs) so we can have fun with the game too.

Quite honestly people wtf is so hard about that to understand?