I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[ForsakenRoe]

As a wild guess 'slightly less complex than tanks' would be a good target for SE to hit.

IDK everyone else's exact stance on it but I'm looking at WAR, with condensed 123 combos, as the 'upper end of complexity' for healers. If we look at WHM, which some refer to as being the 'starting point' of the role in a similar way to how WAR is the 'starting point' for getting into tanks, we can make some comparisons:

Eye combo - Dia
Path combo - Glare
Upheaval - Assize (but with 10s extra CD)
Onslaught - ???
Infuriate - ???
Inner Release - POM (but double CD)
Primal Rend - Misery (see note)
Fell Cleave - ???

note: While it could be argued that 3 FCs and a Primal Rend is 'kind of like' 3 Lilies and a Misery, the difference is that where you have to use the 3 Lilies first, before Misery is available (forcing Misery's place in the 4 GCDs to be locked as 'the last one'), the three FCs and PR can be flexibly moved about to suit the fight better, eg if you need to be constantly moving for something (cough TOP Pantokrator) you can move PR forward/backward to adjust for that

Even with that note, we don't have a comparison for FC, Infuriate or Onslaught as a WHM. And while it's not necessarily 'required' that we have an analogue to all three, it would be nice to have at least one of them added, if we're going to see people make the WHM-WAR 'simple to get into' comparisons. A 0-100 gauge being added to the job instantly opens up design room to add both the FC analogue (the gauge spender), and a potential Infuriate analogue (OGCD that instantly grants X gauge). IMO, the FC analogue doesn't even have to be damage necessarily, I've previously suggested it be an AOE heal that makes itself damage-neutral by empowering your filler skills into Quake/Flood/Tornado, with Onslaught's role being covered somewhat by the addition of a Water GCD.

Making healers actually match WAR's 'simplicity level' instead of 'WAR but even less' would solve like 90% of complaints overnight I bet

[Zeastria]

What's need to be done:

1. FIX Gear(ilvl) Scaling Issue:
STOP leting gear/ilvl outscale content difficuilty in [Normal] content - minilvl on everything!, let only player dmg scale up(with better gear).
Normal and EX/Savage/ULTS should have separate scaling systems implemented, Because what works for normal dosn't work for harder content!

2. Higher Healing Requements:

-Damage need to happen way more frequent!
-Inc auto hit dmg on bosses.
-Add DoT mechs, that hits all and last for 30-40sec.
-More unavoidable and random dmg spikes.

3. Rework our DPS buttons:
YOU CAN have more engaging DPS rotation
without it being hard/difficult or having to many buttons!!

Example:
Imange if healers had DPS rota kinda like mix of DNC/SMN.
But with less abilties (4-5 abilties):
- Let them have more depth by adding buffs + versatility to them
and they should be interactive with our healkit.
- They could also make use of [alternation buttons] - to provide more abilities
but without the cost of more buttons to bind.

Note: What determinates how fun a dps rota(job) is..
doesn't translate to the number of dps buttons it has,
rather it's the design and its gameplay flow!

[Aravell]

Making healers actually match WAR's 'simplicity level' instead of 'WAR but even less' would solve like 90% of complaints overnight I bet

Honestly, making healers match tanks in complexity would be just fine. WHM can be the straightforward powerhouse like WAR, SCH can be highly technical like old PLD, AST can be the speedy spammer like DRK, and SGE can be the more rotation-focused one like GNB.

All the dev team has to do is accept that healers will always have downtime and they should be allowed to have things to do during it that doesn't amount to just wearing out their 1 key.

[Saraide]

Honestly, making healers match tanks in complexity would be just fine. WHM can be the straightforward powerhouse like WAR, SCH can be highly technical like old PLD, AST can be the speedy spammer like DRK, and SGE can be the more rotation-focused one like GNB.

I am surprised how well that would map out between tanks and healers. While tanks have their own struggles with their role and job design it definitely works better than healer role and job design.

[AmiableApkallu]

But if we look at WHM, which some refer to as being the 'starting point' of the role in a similar way to how WAR is the 'starting point' for getting into tanks

I really wish "people" would stop referring to jobs like this. Is BRD the 'starting point' for physical ranged? What's the 'starting point' for melee? This characterization only ever comes up when attempting to justify why a job's design has been cut off at the knees.

WHM is one half of an honest-to-gods calamity in the lore. It should play like the counterpart to BLM: serviceable in average hands, terrifying in the hands of a master with a good party.

[Nadda]

I don't need a complex DPS rotation as a healer.
That's just not very smart.
I wouldn't mind more damage buttons even if they were dots because that's interesting.
Healers need flexibility not a set rotation of buttons to press to be effective. Especially when we all know our damage output for balance sake will still be at the bottom.
So all you're doing is appeasing people's adhd brains to press buttons. You're creating the illusion of effort for the same output.

Healing isn't boring the content you're doing is. Guess what in most content it doesn't matter what button you press on DPS because the game asks nothing from you. Nor does it really ask anything from you as a tank besides using your mitigation.

There's a reason why a majority of the healer community collectively soiled themselves when YoshiP called us out and was like prog savage or ultimate.
This then results in dishonest conversations where people cope by posting videos of some Japanese group with players far better than them doing savage or ultimate without healers.
You aren't those people.
You aren't that great. The 1% of 1% of players who have transcended their humanity like Dr. Manhattan aren't congregating on the forums to complain about how easy or boring healing is.
If you are - then playgroup comps like that. Nobody is stopping you.

If I got to drop a rotation and do crumby damage for 2 minutes to account for people's mistakes or to do proper coverage as the fight demands I'm going to lala punch you people in the shins!

[Saraide]

I don't need a complex DPS rotation as a healer.
That's just not very smart.
I wouldn't mind more damage buttons even if they were dots because that's interesting.
Healers need flexibility not a set rotation of buttons to press to be effective. Especially when we all know our damage output for balance sake will still be at the bottom.
So all you're doing is appeasing people's adhd brains to press buttons. You're creating the illusion of effort for the same output.

Healing isn't boring the content you're doing is. Guess what in most content it doesn't matter what button you press on DPS because the game asks nothing from you. Nor does it really ask anything from you as a tank besides using your mitigation.

There's a reason why a majority of the healer community collectively soiled themselves when YoshiP called us out and was like prog savage or ultimate.
This then results in dishonest conversations where people cope by posting videos of some Japanese group with players far better than them doing savage or ultimate without healers.
You aren't those people.
You aren't that great. The 1% of 1% of players who have transcended their humanity like Dr. Manhattan aren't congregating on the forums to complain about how easy or boring healing is.
If you are - then playgroup comps like that. Nobody is stopping you.

If I got to drop a rotation and do crumby damage for 2 minutes to account for people's mistakes or to do proper coverage as the fight demands I'm going to lala punch you people in the shins!

The difference is if i play DPS or tank i always have the majority of job complexity to play with even in normal mode content. Those jobs get to be independantly fun. Healers dont. They get to spam one button until that button on the keyboard breaks.

[Aravell]

There's a reason why a majority of the healer community collectively soiled themselves when YoshiP called us out and was like prog savage or ultimate.
This then results in dishonest conversations where people cope by posting videos of some Japanese group with players far better than them doing savage or ultimate without healers.
You aren't those people.
You aren't that great. The 1% of 1% of players who have transcended their humanity like Dr. Manhattan aren't congregating on the forums to complain about how easy or boring healing is.
If you are - then playgroup comps like that. Nobody is stopping you.

It's rather disingenuous to say that you have to be the top 1% to claim that you're bored. I personally am bored of savage and even ultimates after the progging phase is done and the healing is all figured out, it becomes just going through the motions and pressing the same buttons over and over again after a set amount of Broils until we clear.

Also, it's rather presumptious to claim that the top players aren't complaining, some of the top raiders in the game are actually also saying a lot of the same things that are being said here.

You sound like you're just moving the goalposts into outer space to try and stifle the voices of people who are disgruntled, all because you personally aren't very much against the current healer design.

[Nadda]

The difference is if i play DPS or tank i always have the majority of job complexity to play with even in normal mode content. Those jobs get to be independantly fun. Healers dont. They get to spam one button until that button on the keyboard breaks.

BULL SHEET. Don't make me laugh. You can get by on a very basic rotation and do nothing else. That complexity is about as complex as playing the opening fur else.
Not saying chopsticks is better. We should have more options but a Healers damage shouldn't be tied to a rotation because you have more responsibility. DPS for healers should be more like, free-form jazz. rhythmically pleasing within the chaos and set to no structure. Adaptable and free styling.

It's rather disingenuous to say that you have to be the top 1% to claim that you're bored. I personally am bored of savage and even ultimates after the progging phase is done and the healing is all figured out, it becomes just going through the motions and pressing the same buttons over and over again after a set amount of Broils until we clear....

You want to talk about being disingenuous and presumptuous you're a Savage and Ultimate raider and you're saying you're just going through the motions after progging? I didn't cover this in my last post because I knew someone like you would emerge but I figured it make my post less coherent. But if you're seriously suggesting it's taking no brain power to do your role in the highest form of content then you are putting yourself at a 1% of 1% level that doesn't exist. That's disingenuous presumption. You got it backwards.

No I'm not moving goal posts. I'm telling you a DPS rotation isn't the answer. Healers could use more damage options but our role should be flexible and not tethered to a rotation.

But disregard what I say and pretend like that top half doesn't exist.
With your Presumptions.
To hell with you.

[Aravell]

You want to talk about being disingenuous and presumptuous you're a Savage and Ultimate raider and you're saying you're just going through the motions after progging? I didn't cover this in my last post because I knew someone like you would emerge but I figured it make my post less coherent. But if you're seriously suggesting it's taking no brain power to do your role in the highest form of content then you are putting yourself at a 1% of 1% level that doesn't exist. That's disingenuous presumption. You got it backwards.

No I'm not moving goal posts. I'm telling you a DPS rotation isn't the answer. Healers could use more damage options but our role should be flexible and not tethered to a rotation.

But disregard what I say and pretend like that top half doesn't exist.
With your Presumptions.
To hell with you.

Ah yes, I challenge your argument and you skip straight to the insults, how wonderful.

I never once claimed that I was one of the 1% elites, I said healing savage and ultimates is rote memorisation, you can map the entire fight out and just follow it to the letter repeatedly until you clear, that's not a lie, that's the truth.

But yes, just insult me because I say something that you don't want to hear, that's a delightful tactic that a lot of people in this community enjoy engaging in.

Edit: Also, telling me to go to hell doesn't make your argument any stronger, just saying.