JP Players healer feedback is...

[kyyninen_kirahvi]

What I've gathered from the JP forums is that they have this ideal way to see the jobs.

Healers only job is to heal. No damage what so ever, only the bare minimum. (I kinda agree. But I feel like there is a need for healer rework... at least for sage. [It's failure of a DPS healer])

Tanks need selfsustain more than anything. Actually there isn't enogh! (I know tanks need those skills but absolutely no nerfing of them of any kind?)

DPS is just DPS. All about damage.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

What I've gathered from the JP forums is that they have this ideal way to see the jobs.

Healers only job is to heal. No damage what so ever, only the bare minimum. (I kinda agree. But I feel like there is a need for healer rework... at least for sage. [It's failure of a DPS healer])

Tanks need selfsustain more than anything. Actually there isn't enogh! (I know tanks need those skills but absolutely no nerfing of them of any kind?)

DPS is just DPS. All about damage.

So basically they have a really boring ideal of how they want roles to be and anything outside of the pure standard is met with extreme disagreement.

Not gonna lie, I thought World of Warcraft had terrible reasons to neuter jobs over time, but if ffxiv JP is the primary audience the devs base their changes and decisions on then I am genuinely afraid for the future of job design.

It really does not help that the idea of keeping up a social standard and status quo is such a deeprooted thing in their culture - the fact this extends to their wishes and desire for game additions and changes is appalling.

[Solakor]

So basically they have a really boring ideal of how they want roles to be and anything outside of the pure standard is met with extreme disagreement.

Not gonna lie, I thought World of Warcraft had terrible reasons to neuter jobs over time, but if ffxiv JP is the primary audience the devs base their changes and decisions on then I am genuinely afraid for the future of job design.

It really does not help that the idea of keeping up a social standard and status quo is such a deeprooted thing in their culture - the fact this extends to their wishes and desire for game additions and changes is appalling.

The question isn't if they will remove something but what. They have been doing this 3 expacs in a row. SB was the middle ground where we still had skill expression but it wasn't as punishing and everything after has just been making it worse and worse.
The new SMN shouldn't exist in the game period because it's not a caster and it's completely different job to what it was before.
DT will not make it better but propably worse. The question is how much.

[Absurdity]

The question isn't if they will remove something but what. They have been doing this 3 expacs in a row. SB was the middle ground where we still had skill expression but it wasn't as punishing and everything after has just been making it worse and worse.
The new SMN shouldn't exist in the game period because it's not a caster and it's completely different job to what it was before.
DT will not make it better but propably worse. The question is how much.

I mean if their end goal is to basically make the gameplay Everquest but without any of the interesting class mechanics then it's still going to get quite a lot worse. It's just a question of how long that process is going to take.

[SieyaM]

I mean if their end goal is to basically make the gameplay Everquest but without any of the interesting class mechanics then it's still going to get quite a lot worse. It's just a question of how long that process is going to take.

The kind of tools and skills that classes have in Everquest are way more comprehensive than anything XIV has ever had.

[Absurdity]

The kind of tools and skills that classes have in Everquest are way more comprehensive than anything XIV has ever had.

That's why I specifically said "without any of the interesting class mechanics", because if you strip those away you end up with the most barebones gameplay imaginable.

[Flay_wind]

I mean if their end goal is to basically make the gameplay Everquest but without any of the interesting class mechanics then it's still going to get quite a lot worse. It's just a question of how long that process is going to take.

Look, i'd kill to have a Warden from EQ2. It had so much busted crap.
What do you mean infinite MP?
Tank gets regen proc on simply being hit.
Basically a dance partner.
Group immunity to bind effects just by being in the party.
Immunity to aoe for 30 seconds, save for the MT.
Death prevention (when targets takes lethal damage, hp can't be recuded below 1 and target gets a regen).
Group wide death prevention, yes, you read that right.
Targeted Hallowed Ground on a 5 min recast, why the fuck not. =)

[Sani2341]

What I've gathered from the JP forums is that they have this ideal way to see the jobs.

Healers only job is to heal. No damage what so ever, only the bare minimum. (I kinda agree. But I feel like there is a need for healer rework... at least for sage. [It's failure of a DPS healer])

Tanks need selfsustain more than anything. Actually there isn't enogh! (I know tanks need those skills but absolutely no nerfing of them of any kind?)

DPS is just DPS. All about damage.

The issue with that ideal is it is absolutely not what the fight Design in FFXIV is built for.

Tanks at least still have tankbusters and tank swaps in savage to deal with, on top of getting dps rotations of varying complexity and apm.

DPS (well outside Summoner) get Interesting rotations with more or less room to optimize. And dps checks to Beat.

But healers are designed for dealing with fights we never See.

For one there's no mechanic I can recall in content I play (which tbf does not include ultimates or criterion) that needed non-tank spot healing.

There's no random dps chunking mechs you need to spot heal asap bc that dps getting hit by it again would kill them. It's always predictable and usualy party wide dmg.

Even on Tanks the healing needed is very predictable. Unless it's a tankbuster, or you cheese some mechs with the 'drop to 1' invulns, Tanks can wait for healing until you'd need to hit an AoE heal anyways for a raid wide.

There's also very few mechanics that actually need a lot of Healing through put to deal with. HH is the only one that jumps to mind this Tier, with styx as a runner up at least when the parties gear is meh.

But looking at the toolkits healers have rn you'd think they'd need to deal with raidwides needing heavy mitigation every 30s or so. Or ones needing a single healers mitigation every 15s. Tankbusters on both tanks about every minute or so. Etc.


And even then, there's few mechanics in game that would allow Healers to show their stuff beyond a binary 'fail to heal and wipe' and 'heal enough to pass'.

These days there's basicly no tankbusters in ffxiv where the party has a choice of when to do them. Imagine if the vulns given by tankbusters were less 'next hit instakills guranteed' and instead just ramped up all dmg taken by the Tank. So that skilled healers could drag that tankswap out longer than average healers. Potentially even so far that you could skip the Tank swap with two good enough healers and thus freeing up the second tank slot for a dps to speed up Runs. Or maybe even give the Off-tank a dmg buff equal to the vuln stacks the Tank has to just speed up the boss even with a standard comp the longer healers can keep the mt alive.

[4clubbedace]

What I've gathered from the JP forums is that they have this ideal way to see the jobs.

Healers only job is to heal. No damage what so ever, only the bare minimum. (I kinda agree. But I feel like there is a need for healer rework... at least for sage. [It's failure of a DPS healer])

Tanks need selfsustain more than anything. Actually there isn't enogh! (I know tanks need those skills but absolutely no nerfing of them of any kind?)

DPS is just DPS. All about damage.

tbf most of the people in anglo speaking do no play in DF, they play in PF where you can (if youre an ass) vet people, and kick people out or have a good group for farm/reclears.

DF is all randos all the time babyyyyyy which means your avaerage smuck is much much less reliable,
and unreliability is when healing is exciting.
the smoother the ship the less exciting healing is, so anglo speakers either want shit to hurt where they sweat healing, or a rotation.

neither goes well for what jp (the intended) way to play

[Azurarok]

tbf most of the people in anglo speaking do no play in DF, they play in PF where you can (if youre an ass) vet people, and kick people out or have a good group for farm/reclears.

I've only started savage recently, but most reclear parties I've joined through PF are still largely randos that just disband after like 2-3 failed runs.

I'm also pretty sure people sometimes join parties with jobs/roles they aren't as familiar with because those slots are already taken on PF, while with DF I'd imagine you're more likely to queue up with the jobs you'd prefer to do it with, so I kinda doubt it's all too different from how it is here.