My feedback on the method of obtaining relics in Endwalker

[AnotherPerson]

Main issue with hard-tying relics to the Expedition zones and progression in them is aparent. It becomes very dead in next expansion. I'd rather have it other way around, relic completely unrelated to expedition zone and progression of it being its own, but expedition zone instead being the optional way to get the relic pieces. That way we won't have another Eureka where content is basically dead in earlier zones, or Bozja where the step thats the worst to do (DR) is also step thats the worst to do outside of it (Horrendously low dropchance from palace, just why).

That's not how it works. If you don't want expedition zones to die, you don't make it have a lack of rewards. A lack of rewards/incentives to do the content make it die even faster. There's plenty of evidence of this with EX fights and Criterion after patch is done. The problem with Eureka and Bozja isn't so much combat design but both the accessibility to reach those zones and the lockout factor. The lack of accessibility in starting the content (finding enough players with the convoluted way to join in an instance) and lack of incentives is ultimately the reason why it dies.

We saw Bozja come back to life in the beginning of Endwalker exactly because new jobs were released (incentivized to play for the exp to level new jobs). Clearly there can be reason to do exploratory content, but the gains usually make visiting this content not worth the losses. When the incentives in the game are good enough to exist for enough players, then the first problem is also no longer an issue.

The main reason people do exploratory content otherwise is because of the content itself (current expansion endgame) and the relic -- progress tied to the relic when the relic is still endgame gives people a reason to do it. By the next expansion, we get new weapons with higher ilvl, so the number of players who really want the relic do so because it is aesethetically pleasing or they're a collector. Hence, the main reason why expedition zones die is because there's a complete lack of incentive to do them when there are more easily obtainable alternatives. Plus, old content will eventually be restricted from a lack of skills due to the way the game makes the toolkit feel incomplete without being at the most recent expansion cap level.

If you want it to be a progression zone, you tie to MSQ but not everyone likes exploratory content, so this isn't a good solution either.

The idea of turning it into a roulette for daily rewards is basically putting an incentive to do bozja weekly is just another way to address the concerns of longevity, which can work but there would still be obvious barriers to entry with the current way the instance is designed.

[NekoMataMata]

Assuming this is in good faith, and not trolling, I'll say that I would love everyone to be able to do whatever they enjoy to get progress towards relic weapons. PvP? Sure, go for it. Island Sanctuary? Yup, that's alright too. PvE dungeons with trusts? Sure! Hardcore raiding? That too. Field operations? Yep yep.

Everyone gets the kind of ice cream they want, they just pay for it a bit differently.

Then at this point it's not really a relic. It's not a freebie sure, but it's not much of a relic either. It's more of a "this is whatever weapon you want it to be."

The relic isn't meant to be for everyone and we need to stop trying to make it as such. It's nice to give people options, but at some point the original concept just becomes lost.

I’m not sure how people can argue field content isn’t designed for longevity when you can literally go into both field content zones now and be able to do everything in them that you could do in them day 1

Hell both zones are more active than most of the content EW introduced, if field content isn’t an example of content that’s been correctly evergreened that’s not in a roulette I literally cannot think of an example of something that is

Whataboutism. EW content isn't that impressive of a standard to compare against anything.

I had to do the one time steps for the last ShB relic step through duties because I'd be sitting around spawning CEs on my own all day otherwise. I assume that earlier on in Bozja's release that people actually did spawn them due to how many people there were. I say I like Bozja a lot, but the truth is I only really like the raids it introduced: CLL, DR, Dalriada.

The actual field content is essentially skirmish spamming with a bit of cluster farming.

And before anyone asks, I'm halfway through the mats needed for all ShB relics, so yes I'm somewhat active there and I know what I'm talking about.

[Supersnow845]

^are you doing it aether, because again I’ll say that it’s unfair to blame field content for if you are trying to do it on any data centre except aether

It’s not fair but like I said it’s also not field content’s fault

[strawberrycake]

The best Way to Make Relics, is By having Eureka Bozja Like Content, and Then offering a tome based alternative afterwards for people who don't like grinding in Eureka Bozja Like Content. Like thats literally the best way to handle this.

[NekoMataMata]

^are you doing it aether, because again I’ll say that it’s unfair to blame field content for if you are trying to do it on any data centre except aether

It’s not fair but like I said it’s also not field content’s fault

Yes.

Think at this point it's safe to assume that anyone that's serious about doing most content in the game is doing it on Aether.

[Scruit_Bigtime]

the relic grind doing old expansion relics is a good way to keep busy, especially as we come to the tail end of the expansion.

ive personally gone back and recently done some HW and ARR relic, and found it fine, frustrating at parts but fine. i'd take 'go run these 3 dungeons' over collect 1500 poetics anyday.

now compare that to what doing the EW relic in DT and beyond is gonna be, 'capped my poetics, buy mcguffin, repeat' theres really nothing impressive about that

[Mithron]

The original relic journeys aren't the official way. They're not even identical. None of the relics are exactly alike to get in fact. I would love for devs to offer zones, and journeys as a method per every relic, but they're probably going to say it's too resource intensive.

As for as zones, I see no evidence they failed..I did them last year and the zones were thriving. Maybe they are aren't right now..it's also very low subscriber count right now and we are coming off a holiday season.

They're identical in the sense that they don't involve exploratory zones.

They failed because I didn't enjoy them, along with many more who don't bother posting or voicing. The ones who do enjoy them are a loud minority. I'm not against more exploratory zones as a whole for you wrong players, but keep the relic specifically out of it.

Also, no one, and I mean no one, could possibly think doing DR 15 times for one step when each of those runs takes 40-60 mins because no one knows how or bothers to use their actions to increase damage except you is good. That's not even counting the queue times and not counting wacky party compositions that only further compound worse when you have no tanks or healers and again, no one using actions.

[Supersnow845]

Considering Bozja is still the most interacted with content that’s not on a roulette i think saying they were a failure is about as wrong as possible

Whether you think this is because of genuine enjoyment or simply “because of the relics” it shows that a zone with relics gets engagement rivalling roulette content, how is that anything but a resounding victory for bozja’s content design

[Mecia]

and not counting wacky party compositions that only further compound worse when you have no tanks or healers and again, no one using actions.

You did not and do not need tanks and healers though, DPS can fill both roles and thats what makes Bozja so fun. All it took was one player to step up, ive tanked it as BLM plenty of times for example.

You can dislike exploratories all you want but youre either just lying or forgetting what you can do in them.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[…]Also, no one, and I mean no one, could possibly think doing DR 15 times for one step when each of those runs takes 40-60 mins because no one knows how or bothers to use their actions to increase damage except you is good. That's not even counting the queue times and not counting wacky party compositions that only further compound worse when you have no tanks or healers and again, no one using actions.

I admit for being one of those minority. Myself & another ex-FCmate of mine were one of those minorities who farmed DRn 255 times before any sort of nerf or adjustment to the raid applied back in its inception patch.

Ofc, I got called being ‘mentally ill’ for that lmfao. #gcbtw