whats up with the pictomancer hate

[Saraide]

Is this a troll? Or am I completely missing the irony?

Sigh. Please, before making accusations like that, list the jobs that are "broody, dark and masculine". Because really, either we're not playing the same game, or there's a huge dose of bad faith somewhere.

PLD? Meh, Gary/Mary-Sue. May villains perish under the yoke of my sacred light! So dark!
WAR? An axe-wielding fool. Goofy as hell. Curious Gorge's stupidity could be considered as a form of tragedy, I'll give you that.
WHM? A madman who talks to spirits and borrows the power of nature, not very dark at all.
SCH? Oh, a cute little fairy, what an edge lord!
AST ? Stars everywhere, azure blue and gold for most of the animations.
Sage ? Hm, serious type. Quite sexy, if I may. But "Dark and masculine" ? Meh.
Monk, Ninja, SAM ? Hmmm... Nope, again. SAM has a serious side, yes, but nothing tormented about it. As for the ninja... Remember the little rabbit that appears when you miss a combo? Yup, now that's testosterone.
BDR & DNC? Shake that ass, Dark Sasuke, and make those menacing musical notes twirl!
On the caster side then, perhaps? RDM... Yeah, still no, crimson everywhere, rather a female type or a light, agile male fighter. The summoner can call Titan. Titan is a real man, muscular and all that, for sure... The guy who hides behind it to cast his spells, a little less so. So, BLM maybe? Hm. Aight, I'll give you that. Because of the name. Forgetting that the whole quest doesn't really take itself seriously by waltzing us between the members of a family of half-portions.

I'm kidding, of course. The fact remains that this argument, if you're serious about it, doesn't hold water at all.

Like someone said: there is a middle ground between (barbie and dune) teletubby and berserk. All other jobs already fall into that middle ground so you'll have to excuse me for not feeling that bad because one job that allegedly doesnt fall into that middle ground. Watching the job trailer however only indicates that it does infact fall into that middle ground.

[sindriiisgaming]

Like someone else said this is the Internet so this ain't nothing new, but people have really wrongly internalized that offering feedback or criticism is automatically something negative and bad and hateful.





Likewise, I want to be more excited for Pictomancer, and the gameplay video was very underwhelming for me, which is why I've been giving feedback on the visuals. This is not out of hate for the job, this is not because I was expecting something entirely different like Green Mage, this is because I want it to be better than it currently is, because I know it can be.

Partly because FFXIV has some really good VFX already, and I was surprised that the Pictomancer ones weren't of the same quality or general art direction, and partly because, as has been shown in other threads, other games with similar classes have achieved visuals that are a lot more compelling than what we've seen so far.





The most important thing for an artist is to understand the nature of criticism and feedback, be open to it, and listen to it, even if you disagree with it at first. This is the one skill you learn in art school, and this is the main way you improve yourself as an artist. Subjectivity doesn't mean that it's someone's opinion against the rest of the world, but rather that there might be some truth in everyone's opinion, and it's up to the artist to find that truth in the feedback they receive, in the interest of perfecting their work.

what i was taught in art school was actually something called "constructive critism" this is where the criticism meantions the strenghts of the peice and the weakness, but in order for that criticsm to be applied the painting needs to be finished first, and pictomancer isnt. so a lot of this criticism isnt constructive its "i dont like this asthetic" and i mean.. i dont like van gough or davinchi, so i just dont consume there works, instead i consume works i do like such as japanese sumei-e painters and art novou. i would ask them to change there work becuse i appeciate its there artstyle. just like i appreciate this is ff's artstyle. i like it, others dont, thats subjective tbh. just turn effects off

[Khryseis_Astra]

what i was taught in art school was actually something called "constructive critism" this is where the criticism meantions the strenghts of the peice and the weakness, but in order for that criticsm to be applied the painting needs to be finished first, and pictomancer isnt. so a lot of this criticism isnt constructive its "i dont like this asthetic" and i mean.. i dont like van gough or davinchi, so i just dont consume there works, instead i consume works i do like such as japanese sumei-e painters and art novou. i would ask them to change there work becuse i appeciate its there artstyle. just like i appreciate this is ff's artstyle. i like it, others dont, thats subjective tbh. just turn effects off

And I remember having tons of work in progress critiques in art school as well… criticism at this stage is just as constructive, because it helps you improve the piece before it’s completely finished. Heck as a graphic designer, you have your client making changes right up to the last possible second most of the time!

I think a lot of people’s critiques here boil down to this not even looking like “their art style,” as showcased by the other jobs in the game, as opposed to people just not liking “ff’s art style.” It can still look unique without also feeling out of place with the rest of the game. Sure you have people who are disappointed that Pictomancer was the chosen job over others. But when you have people who are actually excited with the job and really want to play it telling you it’s not quite hitting the mark or living up to your usual high standards, that is constructive criticism. SE has always been open about asking for player feedback.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Guys! come back to this thread after 7.0 gets released. Why the f are we going so hard on critiquing the job when we dont even know how it fully functions!

The only feasible opinion anyone can form is just on its aesthetic. Stop acting like your dad or uncle works at SE and you saw and played the job to form these weirdly strong opinions.

[LynxDubh]

what i was taught in art school was actually something called "constructive critism" this is where the criticism meantions the strenghts of the peice and the weakness, but in order for that criticsm to be applied the painting needs to be finished first, and pictomancer isnt. so a lot of this criticism isnt constructive its "i dont like this asthetic" and i mean.. i dont like van gough or davinchi, so i just dont consume there works, instead i consume works i do like such as japanese sumei-e painters and art novou. i would ask them to change there work becuse i appeciate its there artstyle. just like i appreciate this is ff's artstyle. i like it, others dont, thats subjective tbh. just turn effects off

We are criticizing a trailer video presented to us as consumers. So this trailer is complete fair game for us to assess and provide feedback. We have roughly 6-9 months till the release of DT, so NOW is the time for us to get our criticisms in for what's been presented to us. If we wait for the job action trailer or the release of the expansion, it will be too late to have put in our opinions and provided feedback. At that point, the art assets will be largely finalized.

[VirusOnline]

I don't see much hate, then again I'm not going into those threads, or I'm subconsciously glossing over them haha.

I agree that Pictomancer could be interesting and exciting, but I think it's a shame that Pictomancer is the main job and Beastmaster is the restricted option when I was hoping the order was reversed, especially since Pictomancer appears to be a generic caster when I was hoping for something new, but time will tell.

The reveal of pictomancer is a bit odd, but interesting given the archetypes we're used to in MMOs.
I also agree that Beastmaster should have been the job, but I assume it's because physical ranged has the newer addition (DNC) over magical ranged (RDM) which was almost 6 years ago. I honestly would have waited a few years for a full beastmaster job if that is what they were concerned about. I like the classical rpg archetypes, especially hunters.

Agree! Looks horrible..
imagine ... the ice..if it had textures like these instead:

Obv this is a crystal and not ice.. but you get to see the style.

I assume the animations and graphics we saw are exactly what we're getting or close to it. To give it a real ice look would probably make it look too close to BLM. To give the earth spell a real earth look would look too SMN. I don't know how the final look would be, but it's definitely off-putting from what little I saw.

Quick reminder that this is the character whom inspired the job.

Relm's been around for 30 years.

TBH I like this pictomancer better. It's more subdued, the gist of the job is there, the spells are playful but not over the top.

This argument is predicated on players requiring to actually play the job in order to have a first impression. If you understand that it is a first impression, then you should also understand that it isn't irrational for a new job release to fall short if player expectation. If players wanted something like Green Mage or Geomancer, it should be understandable why they are disappointed. They are not fully judging it, or even attempting to. They are making an assessment based of what is shown to them.

They also know what the job is. It has been explained in full. It's a caster. It starts at lv80. It attacks the enemy using illustrations. It uses caster gear. It requires the new expansion in order to unlock it. Of course they don't know how it plays. If the first impression doesn't interest them, then why should they even care?



Think of the player as an employer, and the new job is the candidate being interviewed. An employer truly doesn't know how an employee will perform until after they hire them, so they have to make a decision purely based in judgment and first impressions. For many of the caster mains out there, Pictomancer did not make it past the interview stage.

This. Like I said on your BLU thread - I will not waste my time. I don't have much of it. Many of my first impressions on jobs turned out true and I've played them all. The only exception I've ever been proven wrong by was DNC.


But of course I will level and play it because I give all jobs a chance, I just know I probably will not enjoy it.
And if I'm proven wrong that I won't enjoy the job then kudos.

[ty_taurus]

Guys! come back to this thread after 7.0 gets released. Why the f are we going so hard on critiquing the job when we dont even know how it fully functions!

The only feasible opinion anyone can form is just on its aesthetic. Stop acting like your dad or uncle works at SE and you saw and played the job to form these weirdly strong opinions.

For what it’s worth, now is actually the best time to deliver feedback. Criticism is not about just tagging on something, and while that is happening from some people to some extent, there is also worthwhile constructive criticism as well. It’s really up to SE to determine how they feel about the feedback and if they agree or disagree, but if they want to make adjustments based on criticism, before the job official released is the best possible time to do so.

[Wolwosh]

Why are you guys so fragile in your own opinion?
You love it? Effing great!
Some don't. Why does it bother you? Because you're a whiney little white knight.. Grow up

[DiaDeem]

the death of DFFOO

[Shougun]

Think of the player as an employer, and the new job is the candidate being interviewed. An employer truly doesn't know how an employee will perform until after they hire them, so they have to make a decision purely based in judgment and first impressions. For many of the caster mains out there, Pictomancer did not make it past the interview stage.

I really like this analogy... I would actually say both jobs didn't make it past the interview for me this time. I'm not the only employer of course, and not calling my other employers to tell them to not hire this individual.. but the reveal on the normal jobs was like "meh" and beastmaster was more of "oh man here we go again, that would have been fun to have actually mained ".

I'm more interested in Viper, due to it being like Zidane and while Zidane's combat theme is just okay (to me) I really enjoyed FFIX itself. This lends a sort of passive interest, simply due to that. Benefits from the nostalgia of another game. Pictomancer, if you can choose your paints, or they perhaps go more their own actual concept art.. art style.. would probably be more popular (at least in my eyes), but the concept will always poke me in the eye "could have had BLU, could have had BST, you got pictomancer instead". That said while voicing my opinion, I'm glad others might like them (and primarily why I thought of paint as a way to increase the share in visual interest rather than tug-o-war).

So I think I'll be minorly salty about it's existence just because I apparently am bound to the fate of the one rin--- err limited jobs haunting me. I bet the next limited job is going to be some job archetype I really wanted to main, like a transformation based job.. God. I'm almost upset about a thing that hasn't even happened yet lol.

In positve light- I am excited for the new zones, with the graphical (and density) improvements, it all looks quite nice and is one of my favorite things to do in the new expansions. I doubt they improved their world gameplay but I hope they did. Barely talked about but the new lifestyle content is high on my list of desires, I liked Doma, Ishgard (didn't like it moved on without you though), Island, and Cosmic looks inspired by EW DoL tribe which is my favorite tribe for a variety of reasons. Very interested to see the combat job trailers, though I hope they found a way to add more flavor not.. take it away and add it to later levels. Combat trailers could be massively exciting or more of a bummer.