Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Sensui]

Maybe the real problem aren't the jobs but the script of the fights. I would rather more random mechanics where you have to read, react and recover, over doing a game of memory

[SieyaM]

On the flip side isn’t the fact that healers are just there and people would run without them if the game allowed it indicative that healers are a mess and should be fixed

You don’t need a healer in 4 man content, 8 and 24 man only need 1 healer and even that one healer has far more tools than they need, why is it okay a role is being this neglected

Again the argument is also made that you don't need DPS either, it just takes longer without them. People only attempt and are successful with non-healer runs because it can be much faster as long as everyone is at peak performance, it's hardly consistent enough to do so regularly with random groups of people put together through something like the duty finder. The healer role certainly does need something to improve it's play, and simply adding more DPS options to the role isn't going to change anything about the fact that these things can be done without a healer. In order to change that encounter design itself has to be changed a great deal.

[Supersnow845]

Maybe the real problem aren't the jobs but the script of the fights. I would rather more random mechanics where you have to read, react and recover, over doing a game of memory

ShB had plenty of that (basically the entire first half of E12S; widely regarded as one of the best savages we have ever gotten; it had no debuff vomit, it was just see the mechanic then react to said mechanic) and healers were still in the toilet in ShB

Party members being hit by random autos at random times if that’s what you mean won’t really work with how slow and unresponsive 14 is

Again the argument is also made that you don't need DPS either, it just takes longer without them. People only attempt and are successful with non-healer runs because it can be much faster as long as everyone is at peak performance, it's hardly consistent enough to do so regularly with random groups of people put together through something like the duty finder. The healer role certainly does need something to improve it's play, and simply adding more DPS options to the role isn't going to change anything about the fact that these things can be done without a healer. In order to change that encounter design itself has to be changed a great deal.

Yes but the point I’m making is people want to play the DPS classes so there isn’t a problem, people don’t want to play healers so there is a problem

[Aravell]

But that's an anecdote, the only difference is that it is your own experience as opposed to mine. I have no more reason to believe that than you have to believe me.

I'm not asking you to believe me? You made a statement and I made a counter-point, that's it.

Regardless, this is derailing from my original point. Which is that healers are so vestigial to combat at this point that it's not worth risking getting vitriol thrown in your face for giving advice.

Curious how many people say the game is unengaging or too easy but are also using a 3rd party app to tell them what to do, Ultimates included.

It's so easy to dismiss arguments with "You're probably using 3rd party tools", right?

[Sensui]

Yes but the point I’m making is people want to play the DPS classes so there isn’t a problem, people don’t want to play healers so there is a problem

Never played a MMO where that's not a thing.

[Supersnow845]

Never played a MMO where that's not a thing.

I’ve certainly played MMO’s that have a better healer to DPS ratio than what 14 has and also has a better satisfaction rating of people who do play healers

14 is failing on both fronts

[Sensui]

It's so easy to dismiss arguments with "You're probably using 3rd party tools", right?

Not dismissing, just curious.

[Sensui]

I’ve certainly played MMO’s that have a better healer to DPS ratio than what 14 has and also has a better satisfaction rating of people who do play healers

14 is failing on both fronts

You want healers that can tank, be top dps and heal everything with an aura of awesome. I get it. But roles also have roles.

[SieyaM]

ShB had plenty of that (basically the entire first half of E12S; widely regarded as one of the best savages we have ever gotten; it had no debuff vomit, it was just see the mechanic then react to said mechanic) and healers were still in the toilet in ShB

Party members being hit by random autos at random times if that’s what you mean won’t really work with how slow and unresponsive 14 is



Yes but the point I’m making is people want to play the DPS classes so there isn’t a problem, people don’t want to play healers so there is a problem

There are players that still do want to play healers, even now. They are rather few and are dwarfed by the DPS population, but there are also way more DPS jobs than any other type. The healer role isn't completely abandoned by the players. SE has exact metrics on how many hours people are playing as healers and I doubt it's so low that they are panicking about healer participation in duties, although we will probably never know the exact number ourselves. I feel that for SE to seriously consider changing things drastically to accommodate healers it would have to become impossible to use the duty finder because so few healers play to fulfill requiremnts.

[SieyaM]

Never played a MMO where that's not a thing.

I remember playing Everquest and the community greatly appreciated Clerics and they were an incredible addition not only to the party but just for the tools they had outside of combat.