Thoughts on the Yoshi P AMA?

[KenZentra]

Body checks help prevent this exact problem.

You are right, but its not the only answer, its just the easiest answer. Just about every extreme aside from Zodiark and Rubicante needs every player to have at least some understanding of what is going on during a fight to be able to clear it. You cannot clear any of them aside from Zodiark and (most of) Rubicante with following someone and doing DPS, on content. That being said, body checks do not prevent carries from occuring. There are plenty of people still selling carries/clears in PF, so its not even a decent answer to that issue.

It is. By that logic, ultimate isn't quality either.

So you are comparing the most difficult content in-game, that to have access to it requires you to clear the final boss of a savage raid tier and assuming we are on content will be extremely difficult as well. To content that requires you to talk to the NPC to unlock it.

One is difficult to unlock, and difficult to clear, the other is wholly accessible and leagues easier than an Ultimate and STILL doesn't get done. There is really no comparison.

[Caro178]

One is difficult to unlock, and difficult to clear, the other is wholly accessible and leagues easier than an Ultimate and STILL doesn't get done. There is really no comparison.

"Criterion is leagues easier than an Ultimate" is one of the funniest things I've read on these forums. Tell me you've never touched either without telling me. All 3 of the Criterion dungeons are more demanding UWU and UCOB on a pure design standpoint and contain a mix of Extreme, Savage and Ultimate difficulty mechanics. Savage Criterion outright is a mini Ultimate. There are mechanics in Aloalo that are straight-up more taxing than any individual mechanic in Dragonsong or Omega Protocol (looking at you star cursed star pattern in Statice). Mechanically they are all well designed and anyone who has actually done them will probably give me that nod. I am critical as hell about the implementation of the savage reward system and the rarity of drops in the Another format, but they are not lacking in quality, challenge or innovation.

[Ath192]

"Criterion is leagues easier than an Ultimate" is one of the funniest things I've read on these forums. Tell me you've never touched either without telling me. All 3 of the Criterion dungeons are more demanding UWU and UCOB on a pure design standpoint and contain a mix of Extreme, Savage and Ultimate difficulty mechanics. Savage Criterion outright is a mini Ultimate. There are mechanics in Aloalo that are straight-up more taxing than any individual mechanic in Dragonsong or Omega Protocol (looking at you star cursed star pattern in Statice). Mechanically they are all well designed and anyone who has actually done them will probably give me that nod. I am critical as hell about the implementation of the savage reward system and the rarity of drops in the Another format, but they are not lacking in quality, challenge or innovation.

You probably don't remember or have done ultimate enough it's become second nature. If you did criterion savage every week it would become super easy too. You're probably comparing Ultimates in farm mode to Criterion savage in prog mode and thats not an accurate comparison. Understanding all the mechanics that go in an ultimate is always going to be way harder, even the tempo is different. The thing is once memorized and repeated ad nauseum it seems simple in retrospect.

[Caro178]

You probably don't remember or have done ultimate enough it's become second nature. If you did criterion savage every week it would become super easy too. You're probably comparing Ultimates in farm mode to Criterion savage in prog mode and thats not an accurate comparison. Understanding all the mechanics that go in an ultimate is always going to be way harder, even the tempo is different. The thing is once memorized and repeated ad nauseum it seems simple in retrospect.

I've progged and cleared and farmed plenty. It is simply my opinion that Ultimates (especially UWU-UCOB) are not LEAGUES harder than a Criterion, and certainly not harder than Criterion savage, which was the entire point I was replying to. I've done both TOP and Aloalo and there is no one mechanic in TOP that out ranks the downtime chain mechanic at the end of Statice in terms of precise and fast positioning. That is the reason the Criterions are lacking in engagement - they are too difficult to appeal to the more casual audience that might be interested and don't provide enough incentive for the hardcore crowd. It's really a case of "who is this even for", but the instances in their own are still well designed if you happen to be someone looking for exactly this type of thing.

[KenZentra]

"Criterion is leagues easier than an Ultimate" is one of the funniest things I've read on these forums. Tell me you've never touched either without telling me. All 3 of the Criterion dungeons are more demanding UWU and UCOB on a pure design standpoint and contain a mix of Extreme, Savage and Ultimate difficulty mechanics. Savage Criterion outright is a mini Ultimate. There are mechanics in Aloalo that are straight-up more taxing than any individual mechanic in Dragonsong or Omega Protocol (looking at you star cursed star pattern in Statice). Mechanically they are all well designed and anyone who has actually done them will probably give me that nod. I am critical as hell about the implementation of the savage reward system and the rarity of drops in the Another format, but they are not lacking in quality, challenge or innovation.

I've cleared a Criterion. Managing 4 players rather than 8, is much easier leading to faster prog. I havent done savage Criterion though.

[Ath192]

I've cleared a Criterion. Managing 4 players rather than 8, is much easier leading to faster prog. I havent done savage Criterion though.

It's the same thing, you just can't wipe or you start over from scratch.

[KenZentra]

It's the same thing, you just can't wipe or you start over from scratch.

Oh. Why- Actually, I would ask why its like that, and not just something you can activate in the Another Criterion of your choice rather than a separate duty, but then I remind myself that so many systems and ideas they implement are half-baked messes, and it all makes sense.

[Nestama]

Oh. Why- Actually, I would ask why its like that, and not just something you can activate in the Another Criterion of your choice rather than a separate duty, but then I remind myself that so many systems and ideas they implement are half-baked messes, and it all makes sense.

There's also an enrage timer for the entire run as well. I think the second you pull a mob, or even the second you start is when the timer starts counting down (I think you have ~20 minutes).

[Jeeqbit]

So you are comparing the most difficult content in-game, that to have access to it requires you to clear the final boss of a savage raid tier and assuming we are on content will be extremely difficult as well. To content that requires you to talk to the NPC to unlock it.

No, I am not comparing them (in terms of difficulty). I am saying that in general, there are reasons to not do both, that cause both not to be done by people. One is not done due to the amount of things that have to be cleared to unlock it and its sheer reputation, and one is not done due to a lack of incentive.

People don't avoid either of them "because they are not good raids". It is just that most people are not motivated by the quality of raids in this game.

Case in point: the minimum item level community, who are people who raid purely for the joy of raiding and virtually get no reward for doing it at all. This community is tiny compared to those who unsync everything for glamour or when the challenge has disappeared. The latter are motivated by ease, or reward, factors that have made ultimates and criterions less appealing to them.

A clear difference between them, and savage, is savage can eventually be unsynced as well.