Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Maltothoris]

I made the edit to go to the point where he started talking about White Mage during e3 2017 but doing a separate one here cause let's not forget about the endwalker media tour and I will never stop bringing this part up but there was also the fact that SGE took 6 months to develop even though they said that early one it was decided that one of the new classes was going to be a healer.

[Aravell]

I was just pointing out that someone was trying to claim the devs were going back on their word to not diminish the "core" aspect of classes, and then using removal of dps spells from a healer as "proof." It's not a comment at all about the larger question of roles, just commenting that the example given was flawed.

Even should you not accept the removal of dps spells as proof, there's plenty of other proof that they've gone back on their word in regards to the healer role.

Let's look at SCH, one of their core aspects is the fairy, it's supported by lore that Eos and Selene are 2 different aspects and are meant to do different things, they removed all of Selene's abilities in ShB. Now let's look at AST, their core aspect is the cards, the lore states that The Bole has a protective effect, 6% damage boost doesn't seem very protective to me.

They have been destroying the core aspects of the healers since ShB, not only the damage side, but the utility side too.

[Deceptus]

Even should you not accept the removal of dps spells as proof, there's plenty of other proof that they've gone back on their word in regards to the healer role.

Let's look at SCH, one of their core aspects is the fairy, it's supported by lore that Eos and Selene are 2 different aspects and are meant to do different things, they removed all of Selene's abilities in ShB. Now let's look at AST, their core aspect is the cards, the lore states that The Bole has a protective effect, 6% damage boost doesn't seem very protective to me.

They have been destroying the core aspects of the healers since ShB, not only the damage side, but the utility side too.

Job identity and lore took a backseat a long time ago. Most notably when they did the "low level revamp" where certain job quests required a certain skill and they moved it to a later level and you literally couldn't complete said quest.

It was hilariously inept, which is par for the job design team and the QA team sadly. Mostly QA, it's like they're just rubber stamping everything the job design team does.

[ty_taurus]

Job identity and lore took a backseat a long time ago. Most notably when they did the "low level revamp" where certain job quests required a certain skill and they moved it to a later level and you literally couldn't complete said quest.

It was hilariously inept, which is par for the job design team and the QA team sadly. Mostly QA, it's like they're just rubber stamping everything the job design team does.

Quite frankly, I have always been somewhat disappointing with how former level cap content balance has been largely brushed off. There should be an emphasis on sustaining a healthy balance at every cap, and while that sounds like an exponentially daunting task, I would assume that balance testing data would be logged each time a new expansion drops, and the only real work that should go into that balancing would be ensuring updated potencies and whatnot meet the previous requirements that had been established when that expansion dropped.

In other words, when Stormblood released, there would theoretically have been testing to determine how each job should perform at that level, and an expansion added later just needs to make sure that the same job at level 70 continues to fall into that threshold. For new jobs, I would just use existing jobs as a reference point. It would also be something I'd think about during the development of said job. How does this job exist at 50? And once I feel satisfied with that, figure out what that job needs at each upcoming threshold. Now the stat changes are certainly something that would require more reevaluation to compensate for, which I can understand, but they should still have the resources and manpower to accomplish that work.

[Striker44]

Even should you not accept the removal of dps spells as proof, there's plenty of other proof that they've gone back on their word in regards to the healer role.

Let's look at SCH, one of their core aspects is the fairy, it's supported by lore that Eos and Selene are 2 different aspects and are meant to do different things, they removed all of Selene's abilities in ShB. Now let's look at AST, their core aspect is the cards, the lore states that The Bole has a protective effect, 6% damage boost doesn't seem very protective to me.

They have been destroying the core aspects of the healers since ShB, not only the damage side, but the utility side too.

Which is what I was pointing out...if you're going to make the argument about healers, focus on the healing parts, not DPS.

For what it's worth, though, I'm someone who loves the current incarnation of SCH. Each of the healers are still decidedly unique, but they have enough in common that it's not unreasonable for folks with limited time on their hands to try each one out without being overwhelmed. It's let me see that for me, SCH is now my #1 healer instead of being tied with WHM.

[OdinelStarrei]

Which is what I was pointing out...if you're going to make the argument about healers, focus on the healing parts, not DPS.

For what it's worth, though, I'm someone who loves the current incarnation of SCH. Each of the healers are still decidedly unique, but they have enough in common that it's not unreasonable for folks with limited time on their hands to try each one out without being overwhelmed. It's let me see that for me, SCH is now my #1 healer instead of being tied with WHM.

It's no wonder people constantly feel misrepresented, dismissed, and ignored when posts like this are made on such a regular basis.

Extensive control and cooperation with your fairy? Dot based gameplay building off the foundation of Arcanist? Synergistic and forward planning that goes beyond a spreadlos and a recit excog on the MT? Actual tradeoffs with the job's secondary major mechanic of Aetherflow that is integrated into the kit properly. Having a job gauge that actually makes sense?

Obviously none of that gameplay that was removed mattered, when what was REALLY important was Adlos and Succors, the make HP go up buttons.

With my three jobs and six children, I can't be asked for any more than that. And screw the people who did, they're minorities and don't matter. Glad they can't have fun anymore. I don't want be overwhelmed with "depth" and "interesting interactions" within the job suite. I need other people's fun dragged down so I can have fun. It's not fair to me.

[Sebazy]

Which is what I was pointing out...if you're going to make the argument about healers, focus on the healing parts, not DPS.

It'd be nice if those healing parts actually had any importance or value in mainstream day to day content.

[WaxSw]

Which is what I was pointing out...if you're going to make the argument about healers, focus on the healing parts, not DPS.

Why? As stated dps actions are AS important if not more than the heals given that they are the core focus of healer optimization and the most used actions we have, I see no logical reason to not focus on them outside of the dumb argument of "YoU ArE A HEAleR NoT a DPs" which entirely missed the mark of the discussion.


If you enjoy the current iteration good for you but I don't see how jobs can be labelled as "unique" when:

-The Dps rotation is almost the same on all of them and is what we do the most (in fact generic dot and generic nuke are usually over 80% of the total GCDs)

-The cooldowns are standarized to the point of having 1 to 1 equivalences across jobs, very few stand out and those are limited in use and not necessary in most of the content.

-This expansion's "new healer" is an Sch clone.

-Their GCD heals are as carbon copies as they can get down to the exact potency


It's fine to have jobs that are eassy to approach, but that doesnt imply they can't be different. We should strive to have 4 different easy to learn but hard to master jobs, not 4 jobs with the depth a puddle that feel like twin brothers.

[Saraide]

Which is what I was pointing out...if you're going to make the argument about healers, focus on the healing parts, not DPS.

Please explain why.

[ty_taurus]

Please explain why.

If I'd hazard a guess, the answer stars with an R- and rhymes with "eel Eelers eel!"