We need to talk about the PC Gamer article

[Jojoya]

The problem isn't really the lack of rewards but the fact there's too much content to make rewards for. Gear is far too simple, jobs are far too simple, nobody is unique or important because everyone can be all jobs in both combat and life skills. How can something ask for so much time and money of you and provide so little in return?

Why are you here if you feel like you're getting little in return for your time and money?

I'm here because I'm having fun. I'm getting a lot of entertainment I enjoy for my money. It's way more than I'd get spending the same $15 going to the local theater to watch a 2 hour movie.

Be a smart consumer. Spend your money on a game that is giving you what you want for entertainment, not on a game that isn't.

Leave this game full of wasted potential behind.

Nothing in the game is being wasted. Even if you don't personally enjoy it, others do.

What's being wasted is your money because you choose to do so.

[sindriiisgaming]

Why are you here if you feel like you're getting little in return for your time and money?

What's being wasted is your money because you choose to do so.

We're here because this game is a master of edging. What they give you isn't genuinely aweful but it's not good either. It'd ALMOST good. And I think that's why ppl stay. Because this game can be good and we're just hoping it will be. But be assured many many will insub in dt if it isnt. As for myself. I'll be unsubbing in February if 6.55 produces nothing of substance. I'm not singing up for 6-9 months of no content. That's ludicrous

[Jojoya]

We're here because this game is a master of edging. What they give you isn't genuinely aweful but it's not good either. It'd ALMOST good. And I think that's why ppl stay. Because this game can be good and we're just hoping it will be. But be assured many many will insub in dt if it isnt. As for myself. I'll be unsubbing in February if 6.55 produces nothing of substance. I'm not singing up for 6-9 months of no content. That's ludicrous

We already know what's coming in 6.55.

The final part of the MSQ that has the lead-in for Dawntrail.

The finale to the EW Hildy story that will lead into the final stage of the EW relic (another tomestone grind).

The finale to Tataru's Grand Endeavor.

The Allied EW Tribal quests.

Eventually the XVI crossover event will get released (I'm willing to bet it will be released 3 months before DT release date, last for a month then be followed by a 2 month Moogle tomestone event. Why? formula).

If by "substance" you mean new content you'll want to repeat, you might as well unsub now. The repeatable content has already been released.

If you're interested in the rewards from the XVI crossover, come back when that starts, get whatever 6.55 content you're interested done, then unsub again until DT starts when we're going to get the same basic content formula that has worked well for the game since Stormblood.

But, again. Let's not ask Square Enix to be better, let's ask players to leave.

You're going to run into the issue of getting players to agree what "better" would be. Not everyone wants the same thing.

We know a lot of the changes have come about specifically because of player feedback. It's generally be JP feedback but considering it's a JP game that shouldn't be unexpected.

The game is what the developers choose to make it. Either you're happy with what they choose to make or you're not.

Why stay if you're not happy with what you're getting? In the futile belief that the game will suddenly become different because you want it to be different?

Game development doesn't work that way. You need to choose the games you play based on what they are, not what they might become.

Going through Eureka and Bozja was kinda tortourous so in a way yes it felt enslaving? If it were fun and not just mindless grind then I would be singing a different tune

Others enjoy that style of grind, though. The only reason those felt enslaving is because the relic weapons were gated by the zones. Even if there were alternatives to Bozja for memory grinding, it's Bozja that's going to be related to the ShB relics in player minds.

Personally, I didn't feel enslaved because I'm not into grinds for shiny weapons. I didn't do Eureka when it was current though I went back with a FC group during Shadowbringers to see the story (what little there was). I gave Bozja a try for story as well but quickly grew tired of the mettle grind and eventually stopped when I unlocked DR because I saw no point in continuing. The story was well documented on YouTube so I could get it there.

A trap many fall into is "I must have the reward so I'm stuck doing content I don't like". No reward is worth doing content you don't enjoy, or at the very least find tolerable. This game has so many different rewards that missing out on a few won't be noticed in the long run. Half the time the reward ends up forgotten as the player focuses on new rewards coming out. If there is a reward that the player regrets skipping out on, there is nothing stopping them from going back to get it. The FFXIV developers are not in the habit of removing desirable rewards from the game.

Sure, but my point still stand. Some kind of farm has been a part of the experience since at least SB. From what I got, HW had V1 (then V2) of the diadem that was grindy enough, and both ARR and HW relics were grindy. Some kind of grind has been part of the experience since at least 2.0. Thus telling someone that complain it's "You're wrong, you don't get the game philosophy" is a nonsense. We actually do get what the philosophy of the game was, and are not happy about the change.

For the rest I (mostly) liked both Eureka and Bozja. I understand how Eureka can be tedious, but I always thought they did Bozja good enough to not be too bad if you just want the story, after that, you can just ignore the content if you don't like it (After all, the out of Bozja option for the relic is nearly more profitable to the exception of that step that is awful with both options). The other way around is not possible. For those who liked that type of content, something is missing.

I honestly haven't seen anyone against more exploratory zones being added in the future for those who want grind content.

The sticking point seems to be that they don't want the relics tied to those zones. They want other ways to acquire the relics.

Hopefully the DT compromise would be to make the relic story it's own thing, with the exploratory zone one of many options for grinding the stages instead of tying the relic to the zone and giving players one other option outside of the zone for each stage that they don't find interesting. Even better if SE does a better job of balancing the time commitment of each option. I remember the uproar when the HW FATE grinding for memories was far more time efficient than grinding the memories in Bozja.