We need to talk about the PC Gamer article

[Kaurhz]

Current game formula is always going to be there, to be honest. The best I can see happening is better repeatable content. But otherwise... Expect the same.

A lot of these points in the second paragraph... Ehhh... I'd say it has been about the same in terms of dungeons, and in terms of story, granted, I feel Elpis interrupted the pacing, and many of the issues I would say stem from the setup in Shadowbringers, they had always consigned themselves to the fate of wasting time with towers - Something introduced in ShB, that arguably ruined what Endwalker should have been... In this regard, I blame Shadowbringers as much as I do everything else.

ToS is there, and them later introducing systems or features relating to a third-party tool does not negate infringement of ToS, granted, in many cases I would say people that have been banned for third-party have first and foremost been banned for something else.

The article won't do anything... I'd say 7.0 has already been set in stone, inc., the optional content they'll be introducing. Projects rarely change on the whim of an article. Again, expect more of the same, except with a stronger element of replayability.

For better or worse... Some people are far too involved... Lol.

[Turtledeluxe]

How much of that is the transient "WoW refugees" who only left WoW because of the Blizzard drama at the time but then missed the game they had played for years/decades so went back anyway after the initial outrage wore off?

How much of that is the COVID spike from 2020-2021, and then wore off as people went back to work once the lockdowns/work from home periods ended?

We have two very unusual spikes due to outside variables. It's incredibly difficult to put any losses from this period on XIV alone. These are statistical anomalies, and as much as people want to ignore them when looking at the state of the game, you can't.




Also, telling us to just play the game and not come here to discuss is just as silly. This isn't the "General Complaints Forums" It's "General Discussion" You realize we may not want some changes that are proposed by other players right? This is our place to say that. Also, I've seen a lot of people on here saying the game started going downhill in 4.x and 5.x, and yet, you didn't join the forums until 4-6 years later. The time to complain about 4.x and 5.x changes has come and gone. You clearly didn't care enough back then.


One common complaint even by people who enjoy the game is the 6.x combat changes surrounding the 2 min burst windows. Also, all of my friends personally hate how much the savage tiers have turned into body count simulators.

None of the factors you mention are that relevant because even with all those factors, it is a game by game basis as far as which company is missing year on year sales for the same duration that XIV has. How long are you going to use those excuses considering the majority of people returned to work as Endwalker launched? You could use them for the next 10 years but at the end of the day the game hasn't been retaining those players and the players they do retain aren't playing the game as much (per the Chinese producer), which is resulting in sales losses. It isn't even just ubsubs, it is all the engagement that occurs along with healthy social networks.

And yes, part of it is that games like WoW (and way more) are all stepping up their game in the live service space, which is competing with MMOs as well for player's time. That's exactly it. Is XIV competing for your time or just coasting?

And that is a dead serious question because we are stuck with this game for 10 more years. Is it seriously going to take zero creative risks? You're right, that won't be for me, and most other people either except the diehards of the base. Creative risks are what gave us the job and combat design we have now, so creatively change it again. Creative risk gave us the horrible story locked relic quest (please never do that again). I don't see what's problematic about asking for that Creative energy to get redirected toward new ideas or refined versions of old ideas that were discarded.

General discussion does not exclude criticisms. Criticisms are discussion, period.

[DiaDeem]

helpimdyingomghalp

[Turtledeluxe]

See, the issue here is that you are equating 'discussion' to just critique. Just negative feedback.

And don't get me wrong, the things I mentioned are not exclusive to those being negative. There are bad actors on the 'positive side' too. But it's overall a "Treat others how you wish to be treated." situation. When the negative crowd decide to crash and derail threads providing praise, they should not be surprised when they get a taste of their own medicine. When their critique thread gets crashed, derailed, and turned into a praise thread. Or when it gets turned into a meme thread. (Like the otter posting apocalypse.) And vice versa applies as well. Again, the forums are for both critique and praise. And can be done so in a CIVIL manner. But, because animosity of the internet...people decide to be shitters and garbage people to each other. Because of course they do. All and all though, it just comes down to again, these forums are for both critique and praise.

So that means this...

And this...

Goes both ways.

But, it also just creates echo chambers. But that's like...90% of the internet at this point...

And all of this doesn't even get into the fact that 9 times out of 10...you can't really tell if a thread offering critique or praise is genuine or someone trolling/trying to stir the pot. Because these forums also have that reputation as well.

Notice in your post that critics are pretty respectfully suggesting maybe looking at the topic title and perhaps reading some of its content and deciding whether or not it's worth it for you to engage. There's no push to unsub. I'm not sure what else to tell you. A major site writing a critical review of XIV is news. It isn't just negative feedback because you feel it's negative. At the end of the article the author even says they hope XIV can continue its hot streak from 6.0. You can disagree or think they're disingenuous, so why not just say that instead of "unsub". That is my central point.

[StarRosie]

Notice in your post that critics are pretty respectfully suggesting maybe looking at the topic title and perhaps reading some of its content and deciding whether or not it's worth it for you to engage.

And I am pointing out that such a sentiment goes both ways. Yet whenever a thread that would run counter to this one is up, something more on the positive side. This mentality is never practiced by the critics. But then those critics turn around, in a thread like this one and say "Hey, stay in your lane. If you don't like this thread, don't read it." which to me is again, both hilarious and infuriating.

And that the reason some suggest unsub, is two reasons. One, some are just suggesting others who have had a long history of "Never satisfied", employ their strongest tool. Speaking with their wallet. See posts by Jojoya. And two, if you have a community center, and 6 people keep coming in and screaming the sky is falling. And that's it. And the owners of the center won't do anything. There does eventually come a point where the community needs to decide if they need to show those people the door or not. And that's just what I see that as. Is it helpful? Eeehhh......not really. I think my entire time on these forums I have told maybe...two people they may want to consider unsubbing. One was a long time ago, the other was someone who just genuinely seemed addicted to the game and being...very harmful to themselves.

Personally, I think everyone should maybe grow up a bit and learn to have an actual civil discussion rather then suggest echo chambers. But I have a better chance of winning the lottery then that happening. Either way, no real skin off my back.

[Jojoya]

16 likes and none of you seem to understand

- People have left the game
- They're leaving the game
- They're playing it less
- Revenue has been down for several quarters

You continue to fail to understand:

Games always have players who have left. The honest truth is most games will have more new players leave than those that stay with the game.

There are always players leaving a game. They leave for a variety of reasons. Sometimes that reason is they don't enjoy the game anymore. At least they're smart to leave when they stop having fun. Others around here don't seem to have that level of intelligence.

There are always players who start playing a game less. There comes a point when they've master the parts of the game that interest them. Or they pick up a new game that they want to start mastering while continuing to play their current one on occasion because they still enjoy it. Or they have life changes that don't allow them to play as much as they used to.

Revenue always goes down from the peak at an expansion release until the next expansion is released and it peaks again. Massive new release hype always draws more players in. That should be understood without saying. I'm sorry that it needs to be said to you.

There is nothing alarming going on with FFXIV that hasn't happened in other games over and over.

Stop obsessing over what others may or may not be doing. Play the game because you want to play. Don't play the game because you don't want to play. Don't expect the game to be anything other that what it currently is.

Stop fooling yourself the game will go back to feeling like it did to you in the past.

Even I feel the changes to the game as I continue to enjoy the game. Some changes I feel have been for the better, some I don't, some I have no real opinion about. I don't need the past to return. I want to see what the future has in store.

The past is gone. You have changed. The game has changed. If your paths have diverged, then they have diverged. You need to decide what is in your best interest.

So has anyone reached out to PC Gamer regarding this article? It is obviously false since it says bad things about our game. Is there a way Yoshi-P can maybe talk to the editor and have this article taken down?

It's not false. It's an opinion piece. You don't get to decide what someone else's opinion is or isn't.

Some don't agree with what the author has to say. That's no reason for it to be removed.

Okay. Next they should write an article about the fact that FFXIV still gets more and better content than other MMOs. Source: I play XIV, ESO, GW2, LA.

I've seen others saying ESO and GW2 get more and better content (haven't seen any one talk about Lost Ark in ages).

It's all opinion. Different people like different things, and that's going to make things seem better or worse in their eyes.

It's just that this tactic of dismissing boredom and telling people to unsub is actually counter intuitive to the goal of an MMO.

It's not an attempt to dismiss your boredom.

It's an attempt to get you to do what is in your best interest, both financially and for entertainment. The absolute worst thing to do is throw your money at something you're no longer enjoying or feel is a quality product because industries track what you pay for. They don't track what you're saying until you've stopped paying for it.

Do you feel like you've gotten your money's worth in the last 9 months that you've been paying to express your complaints? Has anything changed because of them or have you seen any signs that they will be changing?

I don't doubt that you care about the game. But sometimes you've got to walk away from those that you love or care about because it stops being healthy for you to stay around them. They're not going to change because you tell them they need to change. They will change if and when they make that decision for themselves.

In the case of a business, the change comes when incoming revenues fall well below expectations. SE isn't dumb. They know that the game's quarterly revenues start falling a couple of quarters after an expansion release and won't pick back up until the next expansion is ready to come out. The WoW exodus was an anomaly that caused them to rise mid Shadowbringers. It's not something that they're expecting to get repeated.

What money they make and whether they're happy with it is their business, not ours. It's a stupid criteria to use when trying to give feedback about your opinion of their game. If someone unsubbing means they're not happy with the game, then what does you remaining subbed to the game mean? To a business, getting your money means your satisfied or better with what they make or the service they provide.

You can keep subscribing just to complain that you're bored and help to keep their revenues propped up if you feel like that's a good use of your money. Or you can unsub to show that the current game is not right for you and spend your money on games that are giving you better entertainment value.

Honestly, I know where you're coming from. I went through the same thing with WoW. Even after I stopped paying Blizzard money, I was still subscribing through the WoW token (I had tons of gold to use) and posting my complaints in the forums. I finally realized that I wasn't accomplishing anything. Blizzard didn't care about the opinions of players like me. I left WoW behind and I'm better for it.

Enough others left that Blizzard finally started paying attention to what players had been trying to tell them. They're starting to change WoW. They're starting to bring back the things that players said they missed. I'm actually tempted to give WoW another try when they release their next expansion and I'll have all that Battle.net Balance I still have left to use to purchase it along with several months of game time because I stopped wasting it so I could post ignored complaints in the WoW forums.

You're so uninformed it should be criminal. They've been bleeding money worse last year than ever before. Ff7r is one of the last desperate ploys to save it.

Thanks for the good belly laugh. You're clearly ignorant of all the different pies that SE has its fingers stuck in. There's far more to SE than just the FF franchise.

helpimdyingomghalp

Slow, deep breath.

Hold it.

Now release and repeat.

[WetShoelace]

XIV could have evolved into a compelling MMORPG but I gave up hope with Shadowbringers. The simplistic philosophy felt alright for a development team that was recovering from the failed launch of the original XIV back in Stormblood. But ShB was deliberately horrible for the game and set the trend that the game has no direction.

The problem isn't really the lack of rewards but the fact there's too much content to make rewards for. Gear is far too simple, jobs are far too simple, nobody is unique or important because everyone can be all jobs in both combat and life skills. How can something ask for so much time and money of you and provide so little in return?

What are they going to reward you that's worth something? A title? Gear? A mount that you can't ride in dungeons or raids? Where are you going to use the gear? Well, you can't use gear anywhere because roulettes are synced and end-game gear is only for the sake of end-game.

I can't tell if Square Enix respects the player's time too much or not at all. Hundreds of hours raiding savage and Ultimate for what? For a title? For the experience of organizing eight people together? Because the Music syncs up with the graphics? To master the jobs that keep becoming more streamlined? All of that time crafting and gathering for a house full of furniture but without any people in it.

But I do know Square Enix is more than happy to keep things this way, after all, people keep paying for a mediocre and overpriced service. You know it's bad when it feels like Blizzard cares more about the player than Square Enix with how much they pamper us with account-wide systems in World of Warcraft that actually respect your time compared to XIV. And despite everything Blizzard has removed out of their games, they still understand progression and reward it well.

Hell you even get to play two games for the price of one subscription, can you imagine if we could play FF11 with the XIV sub?

Not just Warcraft but even games like Destiny 2 make sure that everything you do is rewarded with cool gear and that this gear can be used without restriction in other game modes, different content of other expansions, and even between characters. An example of a good level sync system that doesn't remove gameplay features you worked for.

Those games also have active cheating detection systems and even if something is going under the radar it at least feels like the regular player doesn't blatantly disrespect them like people disrespect Square Enix' authority.

But instead of asking the developer to be better, the community simply tells those with justified dissatisfaction: "Leave". So that is what we must do, leaving is better than being cattle for CBU3. Maybe after most of the community has moved on to something else they will start expanding XIV rather than releasing simple content updates that remove more game mechanics we previously paid for.

Leave this game full of wasted potential behind.

[Jojoya]

The problem isn't really the lack of rewards but the fact there's too much content to make rewards for. Gear is far too simple, jobs are far too simple, nobody is unique or important because everyone can be all jobs in both combat and life skills. How can something ask for so much time and money of you and provide so little in return?

Why are you here if you feel like you're getting little in return for your time and money?

I'm here because I'm having fun. I'm getting a lot of entertainment I enjoy for my money. It's way more than I'd get spending the same $15 going to the local theater to watch a 2 hour movie.

Be a smart consumer. Spend your money on a game that is giving you what you want for entertainment, not on a game that isn't.

Leave this game full of wasted potential behind.

Nothing in the game is being wasted. Even if you don't personally enjoy it, others do.

What's being wasted is your money because you choose to do so.

[keichirou]

So has anyone reached out to PC Gamer regarding this article? It is obviously false since it says bad things about our game. Is there a way Yoshi-P can maybe talk to the editor and have this article taken down?

this is sarcasm...................................right?

[Mosha]

this is sarcasm...................................right?

Its sarcasm or bait.