Disruptive Frontline Gameplay

[Scintilla]

It kind of looks like people have forgotten what PvP is

I presume you saw my previous reply to 'it's not being disruptive' so I'm not going to write it all again

My points in your post specifically:

"They're not being disruptive, they're not being mean-spirited"
Debatable. My personal experience when being placed on the same alliance as these premades has suggested that they very much are, and it seems that others have similar experiences. That said, this only accounts for our own experiences, and we cannot make the claim that this poor attitude applies to every single premade team out there. Similarly though, you cannot make the opposite claim.

their only obligation is to win for their team, there is no obligation to make sure the opponent teams have a good and fun match
Are they breaking any rules? No. Have anyone here claimed them to be breaking rules? Also no. So why you seem to feel that we are placing accusations against the premade teams personally, I'm not sure.
The issue that lots have is the many system faults which converge to enable such behaviour. Behaviour which causes such an immense disparity between each teams chances of winning that sometimes teams are given no choice but to either:
1. Let them win
2. Actively help the second random team just to keep some kind of competitive game going

As for FL being as balanced as possible, if you want to get rid of the overperforming pre-mades, the underperforming people would need to be cut out too.
This isn't an 'over-performing' players vs 'under-performing' players issue. In random games, there are a mix of extremely capable veterans and completely new players, but despite this mixture of player experience, FL matches remain competitive and balanced. It is only these games in which the premades exists where problems come about.

And to describe them as 'over-performing' seems almost laughable. I would argue it takes far, far less skill to win as a premade than it does to guide a random team to victory. A random match requires coordinating an unknown team, the balance of objectives and PvP, adjusting tactics as necessary to reflect your team or changes in the situation.
A premade is purely: get a group of 4 friends on a voice chat, use chat to simultaneously voke, remove Guard, and LB, then flee while the alliance covers your escape. No objectives needed, minimal alliance coordination - once they realise there's free kills on offer, most will blindly follow you around the map.

And sadly, in some circumstances there is no way to combat this, regardless of whether you're an experienced FL player or not.

[Aravell]

This isn't an 'over-performing' players vs 'under-performing' players issue. In random games, there are a mix of extremely capable veterans and completely new players, but despite this mixture of player experience, FL matches remain competitive and balanced. It is only these games in which the premades exists where problems come about.

And to describe them as 'over-performing' seems almost laughable. I would argue it takes far, far less skill to win as a premade than it does to guide a random team to victory. A random match requires coordinating an unknown team, the balance of objectives and PvP, adjusting tactics as necessary to reflect your team or changes in the situation.
A premade is purely: get a group of 4 friends on a voice chat, use chat to simultaneously voke, remove Guard, and LB, then flee while the alliance covers your escape. No objectives needed, minimal alliance coordination - once they realise there's free kills on offer, most will blindly follow you around the map.

And sadly, in some circumstances there is no way to combat this, regardless of whether you're an experienced FL player or not.

Many people make the claim that the DRK combo is very easy to pull off and requires no skill, so why doesn't everyone do it then? Have you ever seen a bad DRK+AST group? I've seen many, they feed the enemy team a lot because they think they're meta and invincible.

As for how to combat this combo when the pre-made is actually good? There is one way that almost always works. Flank the enemy and dive their backline as the pre-made makes their charge, the backline will flee and condemn the 4 man pre-made to die. ASTs are basically food, the DRK will usually get away, but that's fine, just feed on the ASTs and they'll never gain battle high. No matter how good the pre-made is, they cannot control 20 other people, when people get flanked, their first instinct is to flee. If no one follows-up, the pre-made is basically useless.

So why you seem to feel that we are placing accusations against the premade teams personally, I'm not sure.

Some people in this very thread have claimed that the pre-mades are griefing or being disruptive. None of that is true, they're simply using the tools available to them to win the game. If some start mocking people, then sure, they're being toxic. But most are simply using the means available to them to win, nothing wrong with that.

[Doozer]

As for how to combat this combo when the pre-made is actually good? There is one way that almost always works. Flank the enemy and dive their backline as the pre-made makes their charge, the backline will flee and condemn the 4 man pre-made to die. ASTs are basically food, the DRK will usually get away, but that's fine, just feed on the ASTs and they'll never gain battle high. No matter how good the pre-made is, they cannot control 20 other people, when people get flanked, their first instinct is to flee. If no one follows-up, the pre-made is basically useless.

That requires all 24 people on your team to understand this and cooperate, whereas what usually happens is they see their party get one-shot and go "oh, these people again, gg" and half of them give up. And you can't blame them for that, when again these teams win every match they're in. If that strategy was so easy to use to counter these teams, people would already be doing it. But they aren't.

[Aravell]

That requires all 24 people on your team to understand this and cooperate, whereas what usually happens is they see their party get one-shot and go "oh, these people again, gg" and half of them give up. And you can't blame them for that, when again these teams win every match they're in. If that strategy was so easy to use to counter these teams, people would already be doing it. But they aren't.

The DRK combo is very ineffective against that solution. How do I know it actually works? Because that's what everyone does on JP.

Like I said in an earlier post, the problems with the DRK combo does not need any nerfs, it requires players to be of equal skill. If the game matches people of equal skill, then the match would be properly balanced. Currently, the team that loses is the one that has the most people that are unable to cope with the DRK meta.

[Doozer]

The DRK combo is very ineffective against that solution. How do I know it actually works? Because that's what everyone does on JP.

Like I said in an earlier post, the problems with the DRK combo does not need any nerfs, it requires players to be of equal skill. If the game matches people of equal skill, then the match would be properly balanced. Currently, the team that loses is the one that has the most people that are unable to cope with the DRK meta.

It's not the "DRK meta", it's 6 ASTs following a DRK around and spamming the same skill all at the same time. It's not the DRK killing everyone.

[Mawlzy]

The DRK combo is very ineffective against that solution. How do I know it actually works? Because that's what everyone does on JP.

Like I said in an earlier post, the problems with the DRK combo does not need any nerfs, it requires players to be of equal skill. If the game matches people of equal skill, then the match would be properly balanced. Currently, the team that loses is the one that has the most people that are unable to cope with the DRK meta.

Simply not true on Aether.

[Aravell]

Simply not true on Aether.

Then how is it a job issue and not an issue with the general level of competency?

Honestly, I've never seen this mythical pre-made that can somehow work in perfect tandem with 1 DRK, 1 RPR and more than 6 ASTs despite only being able to queue in with a max of 4 people. Rarely have I seen perfect coordination, and never have I seen perfect coordination for the entire match, but according to people in this thread, it seems to be a common thing.

[Mawlzy]

Then how is it a job issue and not an issue with the general level of competency?

Honestly, I've never seen this mythical pre-made that can somehow work in perfect tandem with 1 DRK, 1 RPR and more than 6 ASTs despite only being able to queue in with a max of 4 people. Rarely have I seen perfect coordination, and never have I seen perfect coordination for the entire match, but according to people in this thread, it seems to be a common thing.

There are actually two parallel threads here, which I think is confusing the debate. Some hold that current FL problems stem simply from a job balance issue, others that the toxin is premades. I take the second position, based on my experience, with the caveat that I think the current jobs magnify the efficacy of a premade.

As I've acknowledged previously, I may be missing something fundamental due to unconscious biases from PvP in other MMOs I've played. That said, the idea of mixing multi-player sub-teams with the potential of voice comms with solo players is, to me, so incredibly daft I can't imagine how it ever arose in the first place. More importantly, perhaps, there is a growing perception (on Aether) that the outcome of the match is basically determined from the outset when one of the high-quality premades is on the field.

As Scintilla notes, people are trying to take counter-measures, and honestly I find that quite interesting. I'm more disturbed by the mindset of the individuals in these premades, as evidenced by the DM Doozer shared. It's borderline sociopathic.

[Scintilla]

Then how is it a job issue and not an issue with the general level of competency?

Honestly, I've never seen this mythical pre-made that can somehow work in perfect tandem with 1 DRK, 1 RPR and more than 6 ASTs despite only being able to queue in with a max of 4 people. Rarely have I seen perfect coordination, and never have I seen perfect coordination for the entire match, but according to people in this thread, it seems to be a common thing.

I'm not sure where anyone has claimed to have seen a team of 1 DRK / 1 RPR / 6 ASTs?

My own experiences are DRK / RPR / DRG / DRG. Others have stated experiences with DRK/AST/AST/AST.

[Mawlzy]

Some people in this very thread have claimed that the pre-mades are griefing or being disruptive. None of that is true, they're simply using the tools available to them to win the game. If some start mocking people, then sure, they're being toxic. But most are simply using the means available to them to win, nothing wrong with that.

You doubtless remember the PAL cover exploit? Perfectly legal. People used it as a means to help their team win. And it was damn stupid so it was removed.