A Lived in World?

[Boblawblah]

Meanwhile Everquest still brings a tear to any seasoned MMO player who wasn't raised on mobile gaming.

And all those seasoned MMO players are currently playing Everquest I'm sure.

[yaba_gabagool]

And all those seasoned MMO players are currently playing Everquest I'm sure.

88k active subscribers with a game that should have no reason to be alive today.

Setting the standard all MMOs after you continue to follow, with 20 years of no real innovation beyond it.

Even with all this tech, people are still going back to retro mmos because they had something modern mmos dont.

Good design and creative vision.

Today is just about which content model gets your company paid.

Them's the sad facts.

[Avoidy]

88k active subscribers with a game that should have no reason to be alive today.

Setting the standard all MMOs after you continue to follow, with 20 years of no real innovation beyond it.

Even with all this tech, people are still going back to retro mmos because they had something modern mmos dont.

Good design and creative vision.

Today is just about which content model gets your company paid.

Them's the sad facts.

In an era where cash shop mounts bring in more revenue than an actual game, I feel like companies are being rewarded for the worst garbage and learning all the "wrong" lessons. I put wrong in quotations because from a business perspective whatever earns revenue for the least amount of work is great for them, but it's terrible for the players. I'll be surprised if we get an MMO going forward that's anything but a paint by numbers dumpster fire or a mobile game autoplay style thing ported to PC last-minute to get money from mmo-addicted oldies afraid of smartphones (like me, haha).

So yeah I agree with you, it's not looking good going forward. Really not looking good at all. We kinda see it in XIV too, where there are more frequent updates to the cash shop than there are to the actual game. Every month like clockwork there's a new cash shop rollout but for actual gameplay content we have to wait 4 to 4 and a half months. Diehard fans will always see this and be like "it's one team doing cash shop stuff and one team doing the gameplay stuff" but that's beside the point. Why is the team making the cash shop stuff able to churn out something every month while the gameplay dudes can't even toss us a moogle tome event? Hell, we can't even get uncapped tomes lmao. This game gets straight up neglected for like a third of the year until it's time, once a month, to roll out a new mount -- and the only excuse I hear is that the people selling us a mount are part of a different dev team. It's gross watching people defend this sort of thing. It's like these people don't know that you can like the game and admit that they could do a better job of tiding us over between patches, it's okay.

[Aword3213]

88k active subscribers with a game that should have no reason to be alive today.

People still play Tetris.

[Jojoya]

FF14 is a lobby mmo. they used to care about the world, but now it's just a means to get you into the end game lobby, and put you on the gear treadmill of non-choice, and run you through content.

I disagree. FFXIV isn't trying to push players into the end game lobby unlike some other MMOs. It gives you the lobby as an option but you're not forced to opt into it.

It's the player who chooses to turn it into a lobby game, probably because they've been conditioned by the other MMOs that are designed around an end game lobby.

The gear treadmill is mostly optional, "mostly" because you're still going to need to meet ilvl requirements on at least one job to continue MSQ. It's up to you whether you're going to step on that gear treadmill for 20 minutes a week to get the bare minimum or 40 hours a week to gear every single job as good as possible.

I spend relatively little time on roulettes and the like, preferring to opt for doing things in the open world because I enjoy that more. I end up with a mix of crafted and tomestone gear, which is more than sufficient for the content I do.

The game won't be forgotten. The Shadowbringers story will cement it in history if nothing else just as Everquest will be there as the first popular MMO even when the game play itself is forgotten because the only people left are those who were raised on mobile gaming.

And all those seasoned MMO players are currently playing Everquest I'm sure.

Evidently all 88k of them compared to a gaming community of several hundred million. No game is really that big of a juggernaut when you consider just how many people are into online gaming, and especially not a MMORPG. It's always been a niche appeal compared to some of the other genres.

[Shurrikhan]

I disagree. FFXIV isn't trying to push players into the end game lobby unlike some other MMOs. It gives you the lobby as an option but you're not forced to opt into it.

It's the player who chooses to turn it into a lobby game, probably because they've been conditioned by the other MMOs that are designed around an end game lobby.

???

I'm struggling to think of any actual MMO that's more lobby-based than XIV.

Lost Ark, maybe? WoW certainly isn't. GW2 isn't. Blade and Soul isn't. Black Desert Online? Far from it. ESO? Nope. Aion? No.

Until you start getting into games that essentially do not have an open world and don't usually even define themselves as MMORPGs but rather just team action games, the likes of Vermintide or Vindictus... XIV is definitely one of the more, or even most, "lobby"-centric.

[OgruMogru]

I disagree. FFXIV isn't trying to push players into the end game lobby unlike some other MMOs. It gives you the lobby as an option but you're not forced to opt into it.

It's the player who chooses to turn it into a lobby game, probably because they've been conditioned by the other MMOs that are designed around an end game lobby.

The gear treadmill is mostly optional, "mostly" because you're still going to need to meet ilvl requirements on at least one job to continue MSQ. It's up to you whether you're going to step on that gear treadmill for 20 minutes a week to get the bare minimum or 40 hours a week to gear every single job as good as possible.

I spend relatively little time on roulettes and the like, preferring to opt for doing things in the open world because I enjoy that more. I end up with a mix of crafted and tomestone gear, which is more than sufficient for the content I do.

The game won't be forgotten. The Shadowbringers story will cement it in history if nothing else just as Everquest will be there as the first popular MMO even when the game play itself is forgotten because the only people left are those who were raised on mobile gaming.



Evidently all 88k of them compared to a gaming community of several hundred million. No game is really that big of a juggernaut when you consider just how many people are into online gaming, and especially not a MMORPG. It's always been a niche appeal compared to some of the other genres.

I can quit every game I play before the final boss but that doesn't mean the game isn't funneling/directing me towards them. Same applies to 14 the game very clearly pushes you in that direction, it just doesn't punish you for stopping before the finish line. There's nothing BUT lobbys but you'll never see it if you just hang out in the hallway x)

[Jojoya]

I can quit every game I play before the final boss but that doesn't mean the game isn't funneling/directing me towards them. Same applies to 14 the game very clearly pushes you in that direction, it just doesn't punish you for stopping before the finish line. There's nothing BUT lobbys but you'll never see it if you just hang out in the hallway x)

Lobbies are all you will see when you choose to only sit in one.

I know the lobbies are there but I rarely choose to enter them. That's why it's not a lobby game to me. I'll usually dash in when a new raid is released to see the story but I spend the bulk of my time doing content not gated by a lobby. Other than the trials and CT, there's no need to enter a lobby to complete the MSQ now that we have Duty Support. The only time anyone has to enter a lobby outside of that is if they want the reward that is exclusive to the lobby content.

The game has no finish line. The game only has a construction barrier with a sign that reads "New expansion coming in the future" and occasionally we get glimpses of the construction before it's completed and we get to enter.

[OgruMogru]

Lobbies are all you will see when you choose to only sit in one.

I know the lobbies are there but I rarely choose to enter them. That's why it's not a lobby game to me. I'll usually dash in when a new raid is released to see the story but I spend the bulk of my time doing content not gated by a lobby. Other than the trials and CT, there's no need to enter a lobby to complete the MSQ now that we have Duty Support. The only time anyone has to enter a lobby outside of that is if they want the reward that is exclusive to the lobby content.

The game has no finish line. The game only has a construction barrier with a sign that reads "New expansion coming in the future" and occasionally we get glimpses of the construction before it's completed and we get to enter.

I suppose what's most noticeable to me is that the game has got -more- lobby centric as time has gone on so perhaps that's why it feels more egregious. I know the game can be approached in different ways to different people and that's cool! I know the game is ongoing so there's no true "endpoint" but I feel like it should be pointed out that each patch has it's own end point that a lot of people keep current with so it's fine to say it's not a lobby game to you but that doesn't mean it isn't a lobby game for a lot of people that engage with the content that's right up against that "coming soon!" barrier - thats where the whole concept of endgame even comes from, of course people don't literally consider it the end point because we all know it's an ongoing game. There are certain objectives and goals that people that engage with the endgame do on the regular and they are all lobby-centric. All combat content that's not fates and hunt trains is lobby based. It's fine they've added duty support and if you're just poodling around collecting your tomes and gearing up in your own time you obviously won't be interacting with these lobbies as much but like almost all of the games content is lobby based and placed at the *end point* of any given patch even if you personally don't do them.

Not that I'm advocating for the removal of PF or anything [jesus christ what a nightmare] but things felt a lot different when you had to seek parties out in larger towns for raids or farms, even having to travel with your party to the raid entrance went a long way in making the player more integrated into the world. I think it would be healthier for both those engaging in "endgame" AND people that play more chill and on their own terms if there was less separation between those groups of people even on the most shallowest level. You can come wave and emote at the raiders gathering outside the raid entrance on your way doing fates or hunts or w/e even just that small silly bit of no-stakes interactivity would help!

[Jojoya]

Not that I'm advocating for the removal of PF or anything [jesus christ what a nightmare] but things felt a lot different when you had to seek parties out in larger towns for raids or farms, even having to travel with your party to the raid entrance went a long way in making the player more integrated into the world. I think it would be healthier for both those engaging in "endgame" AND people that play more chill and on their own terms if there was less separation between those groups of people even on the most shallowest level. You can come wave and emote at the raiders gathering outside the raid entrance on your way doing fates or hunts or w/e even just that small silly bit of no-stakes interactivity would help!

So where is this lobby you feel like you're stuck in?

I spent part of the night trying to puzzle out why anyone would feel like this is nothing but a lobby game. The character selection screen is technically a lobby. The Fall Guys event has a lobby. Chocobo Square used to be a lobby until the devs added Chocobo Racing to Duty Finder. But overall, players have plenty of freedom of movement to be doing other things while waiting for a party to fill. We are not stuck sitting in a lobby unless we choose to do nothing while waiting.

So thinking back to your comment about how it felt different when players had to travel to the instance entrance within the open world, I'm guessing some people are defining lobby game only by how the instance is entered and not what the player can do while waiting for a party to form.

If someone wants to see it as a lobby game, that's their choice. But they should be asking themselves if they're creating a better game experience for themselves by using that mindset.

Also, if you want some player interaction while waiting for your party to form there is nothing stopping you from initiating it. Go to where players are doing things and share those emotes with them. It's somewhat strange that you're expecting them to stop what they're doing to come to you when you're the one doing nothing while you wait.