A Lived in World?

[OgruMogru]

Lobbies are all you will see when you choose to only sit in one.

I know the lobbies are there but I rarely choose to enter them. That's why it's not a lobby game to me. I'll usually dash in when a new raid is released to see the story but I spend the bulk of my time doing content not gated by a lobby. Other than the trials and CT, there's no need to enter a lobby to complete the MSQ now that we have Duty Support. The only time anyone has to enter a lobby outside of that is if they want the reward that is exclusive to the lobby content.

The game has no finish line. The game only has a construction barrier with a sign that reads "New expansion coming in the future" and occasionally we get glimpses of the construction before it's completed and we get to enter.

I suppose what's most noticeable to me is that the game has got -more- lobby centric as time has gone on so perhaps that's why it feels more egregious. I know the game can be approached in different ways to different people and that's cool! I know the game is ongoing so there's no true "endpoint" but I feel like it should be pointed out that each patch has it's own end point that a lot of people keep current with so it's fine to say it's not a lobby game to you but that doesn't mean it isn't a lobby game for a lot of people that engage with the content that's right up against that "coming soon!" barrier - thats where the whole concept of endgame even comes from, of course people don't literally consider it the end point because we all know it's an ongoing game. There are certain objectives and goals that people that engage with the endgame do on the regular and they are all lobby-centric. All combat content that's not fates and hunt trains is lobby based. It's fine they've added duty support and if you're just poodling around collecting your tomes and gearing up in your own time you obviously won't be interacting with these lobbies as much but like almost all of the games content is lobby based and placed at the *end point* of any given patch even if you personally don't do them.

Not that I'm advocating for the removal of PF or anything [jesus christ what a nightmare] but things felt a lot different when you had to seek parties out in larger towns for raids or farms, even having to travel with your party to the raid entrance went a long way in making the player more integrated into the world. I think it would be healthier for both those engaging in "endgame" AND people that play more chill and on their own terms if there was less separation between those groups of people even on the most shallowest level. You can come wave and emote at the raiders gathering outside the raid entrance on your way doing fates or hunts or w/e even just that small silly bit of no-stakes interactivity would help!

[Aword3213]

88k active subscribers with a game that should have no reason to be alive today.

People still play Tetris.

[Jojoya]

Not that I'm advocating for the removal of PF or anything [jesus christ what a nightmare] but things felt a lot different when you had to seek parties out in larger towns for raids or farms, even having to travel with your party to the raid entrance went a long way in making the player more integrated into the world. I think it would be healthier for both those engaging in "endgame" AND people that play more chill and on their own terms if there was less separation between those groups of people even on the most shallowest level. You can come wave and emote at the raiders gathering outside the raid entrance on your way doing fates or hunts or w/e even just that small silly bit of no-stakes interactivity would help!

So where is this lobby you feel like you're stuck in?

I spent part of the night trying to puzzle out why anyone would feel like this is nothing but a lobby game. The character selection screen is technically a lobby. The Fall Guys event has a lobby. Chocobo Square used to be a lobby until the devs added Chocobo Racing to Duty Finder. But overall, players have plenty of freedom of movement to be doing other things while waiting for a party to fill. We are not stuck sitting in a lobby unless we choose to do nothing while waiting.

So thinking back to your comment about how it felt different when players had to travel to the instance entrance within the open world, I'm guessing some people are defining lobby game only by how the instance is entered and not what the player can do while waiting for a party to form.

If someone wants to see it as a lobby game, that's their choice. But they should be asking themselves if they're creating a better game experience for themselves by using that mindset.

Also, if you want some player interaction while waiting for your party to form there is nothing stopping you from initiating it. Go to where players are doing things and share those emotes with them. It's somewhat strange that you're expecting them to stop what they're doing to come to you when you're the one doing nothing while you wait.

[Ath192]

So where is this lobby you feel like you're stuck in?

I spent part of the night trying to puzzle out why anyone would feel like this is nothing but a lobby game.

Everyone feels this is a lobby game. The question is why don't you xD. I feel like you are in denial because you love this game so much you are incapable of seeing its short comings. It's not a bad game but lets not lie about it either. At its core, this game is about sitting in the overworld until your duties pop. And the overworld has sparse and mostly uninteresting things to do while you wait around for said duties to pop. Not unlike a doctors office with a magazine stand and a keurig.

1. You can "craft" a cup of coffee
2. You may need to "gather" the keurig pod and creamer/sugar
3. You can fight some mobs for the magazine you want
4. You can even participate in a "fate" if an unruly patient starts drama

But noone goes to the Drs office for the overworld that is their lobby, and neither does anyone play FFXIV for the lobby that is their overworld. It's not the interesting part of it.

When will it not be a lobby game?

When people, genuinely play the game as much for the overworld activities as they do for the instanced content. And for that to happen, the overworld content needs to get a lot better and more interesting.

[OgruMogru]

So where is this lobby you feel like you're stuck in?

It's because most endgame content is instanced battle content so by it's nature it is separated from the rest of the game world as a whole. This is why I keep bringing up endgame specifically because the levelling and story progression happens in the actual game world through all the zones etc even if the content itself is still instanced, once you have completed that part of the game the majority of content that is released and expected to be repeatable is all accessed through the DF. So if you've finished with the content that makes you interact with the overworld [msq, fates, hunts, sidequests] you are left with only the DF to access the repeatable long-life battle content that makes up each segment of "endgame" in each patch cycle. because you're waiting on a DF pop [or PF to fill] it discourages engaging with anything in the overworld like fates because you will inevitably be interrupted by the queue popping or are locked out of even doing gates in the gold saucer [not sure if it's all of them but some for sure] so you don't really have much choice than to just stand and wait - the entire overworld just becomes a waiting room. I've done every sidequest in the game, I'm BiS so I have no need for tomes and I've got every glam item that I want [I'm heavily motivated by glam] if I wanna do mount farm it's all through DF and I can do it standing in one spot, the only tie to the overworld is going to the NPC to exchange totems.

Thats why I bought up the way ARR and HW raids [both normal and savage] would at the very least require the party to all travel to the actual overworld location to queue in. The most minimal level of integration with the world. I don't want people to stop what they're doing and seek me out for interaction at all [ever, anywhere as like, a life rule] It's a shame that's how you interpreted that and I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough in what I was trying to say but I was just trying to point out that at the bare minimum when that system was in place there was more integration between people accessing instanced content and the overworld content. The coil entrances were in limsa, just outside of wineport where there would frequently be low level people running through the story that would just incidentally go past people entering the raids so it added the feeling of the world being alive. Believe me forced interaction is the last thing I want and I also would feel extremely uncomfortable just siding up to a load of people idling in towns to start emoting at them like Bill in that episode of King of the Hill where he just stands on the highway for hours so people will beep and wave at him. But idk it's just more....humanising?? to see people milling about doing their own thing and sharing a space as opposed to wordlessly zoning into instanced content where the stakes and social dynamic is more focussed. I could find busywork for myself like gathering mats I do not need [in the same predictable set locations and set times] or levelling jobs I do not enjoy just to fill some time but I feel that does that content a disservice to just relegate it to the equivalent of reading a shampoo bottle on the toilet.

I know I have focussed a lot on specifically battle content for my reasoning but that is because it's the only part of the game I consider to actually be "gameplay" I'm not just being a sniffy snooty raider when I say this - I honestly do partake in all content the game has to offer. I love the story, I love exploring, I've done every sidequest, I read up on lore but all of that stuff is a one time experience. At it's core the game is combat oriented as like I said that is where there is an actual gameplay loop that has replayability and depth. All aspects of the game are equally important but the way everything is segmented off is detrimental to the overall unified experience. People may not enjoy the gameplay loop in bozja/eureka [the tacked on levelling system the elemental wheel thing, the grinding] but the way these pieces of content integrated the story, exploration, levelling, battles, relic, fates and raids is a much better example of how I would like the game to feel as a whole. Not to go on a tangent about this exp relic but even that has been reduced to just sitting in a DF queue completely divorced from the world at large.