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  1. #10
    Player
    Renathras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,747
    Character
    Ren Thras
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    "?Por que no los dos?"
    Why not some of both?

    Very much agree with this, though:

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzlpaw View Post
    Leave us some easy and accessible options so that everyone is able to break into harder content if they choose. WHM can still be an easy healer. MCH or SMN can be simpler DPS. WAR can be a beginner friendly tank. But for the rest, consider creating a wider spectrum of difficulty that players can choose to engage with.
    We really need more of a spectrum across the Jobs and roles. The only role that I think does this well right now is Caster. You have SMN on one end, BLM on the other, and RDM as a happy medium in-between. Each also feels very distinct from the other two to play, no matter the content. I really like that and think there should be more like that across all Jobs. Some people like straightforward (I'm one of them), others like complex, still others like a balance. No matter what content there is, this will always be true. So having a straightforward Job in each role, a complex one in each role, and the others on the spectrum between is just a good idea. Further, having them all play different gives people more of a chance to find one that clicks with them, even if the others do not.

    I do think it's a more extensive thing - for example, open world content is...well...we all know it's not fantastic (sad because then you have stuff like Eureka and Bozja which is basically just a modification to the open world that, even without the special Logos/Lost Actions are still more engaging somehow than the regular open world), so there's another issue itself, and of course encounter design. But on the Job side of things, I do agree with you.

    WAR, WHM, SMN, MCH (or DNC?), and ??? (RPR, maybe? None of the Melees are really super straghtforward, but it's probably the most...) as a baseline, everything else a spectrum from there to the complex end of GNB, AST, BLM, BRD, MNK(?) of each role seems like a good design goal.

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rithy255 View Post
    Easy Job design doesn't really appeal to anyone,
    This is...very likely not true. There are people that like everything, even easy Jobs.

    Even setting aside the Savage/Ultimate raiders that pick the "easy" Jobs but insist they don't like them and are only doing for the clear because of "greater consistency of the Job's performance" (read: easier), just looking at the rest of the playerbase, the easier Jobs are almost always the most played or second most played in every role, sometimes both.

    Per the Lucky Bancho numbers, imperfect but the best statistics we have, the most played Tank is WAR, and while that is partly due to their kit, prior to 6.3 and the buffs, WAR was low in damage and Bloodwhetting is OP in 4 man dungeon trash packs, less so in Savage raids with just the single boss. Yet it was still the most played everywhere else in the game. That was BEFORE the buffs that made it OP.

    WHM has long been the most played healer, and long been the easiest. And lest you try to say "well, that's just because it's iconic", SGE was introduced as basically the second easiest (most people consider it an easier to play SCH), it's the second most played in every region other than JP, where it's a close third.

    RDM was the most played Caster in ShB, where it was also the easiest. With EW making SMN the easiest, SMN is now the most played Caster, with RDM somewhat behind it. BLM is pretty much always a distant third. Even when it comes to hard content, BLM isn't generally the most played until content is on farm. When it actually matters, one of the others is more played than it. And in the general playerbase, despite being praised by people that love complex things on the forums, BLM is the least played, and one of the least played Jobs in the game.

    DNC is generally regarded as the easiest to play Ranged, and it's also the most played. And before you say "That's just because people like the buffing allies support role", BRD has that and is the least played...and also the most complex of the three.

    Among the Melees, SAM is considered easy to pick up and do very well with, and RPR the easiest overall. They are also the most played. The least played? MNK. Even after the rework, which by all accounts went over well and people loved, but it's the most complex Melee and it's the least played, generally.

    .

    What is clear is that easy/simple/straightforward Jobs not only DO appeal "to anyone", they appeal to a lot of anyones. It's pretty clear easy Jobs appeal to more people than hard Jobs appeal to, in terms of ratios.

    What's less clear is how each compare to people that like things in-between, or what flavors of in-between people find appealing. But what is certain is that having at least some of each category is probably for the best, as that way you cover your bases and ensure everyone has something they can enjoy playing on.
    (1)
    Last edited by Renathras; 12-06-2023 at 04:07 PM. Reason: Marked with EDIT