Playing the Melee DPS role quest made me realize how much I want an actual Gun Class.

[RitsukoSonoda]

We used to have a Gun class (which was advertised by Merlwyb in ARR). It was called Machinist and it was all about guns, loading your ammo rounds and shooting. It was boring compared to Bard which danced around doing arrows from various angles, especially in Stormblood after the cast times were removed from both. Machinist went extinct, while Bards were everywhere and extremely popular.

So SE decided to revisit Machinist and change them from being about guns to being about a variety of machines and gadgets, as their job name implies. Their rare heated combo was made permanent because its animations were more fun. And after the change, it was extremely fun and it's one of the main DPS I've used this expansion along with Summoner.

Actually Merlwyb was an advertisement for the Musketeer class they had planned to release in the game before it was rebooted via ARR. It even had an actual class icon which marked the guild location in Limsa back then.

[Mayhemmer]

I'm sure I don't have the full picture but I just looked up a video of SB MCH and it looks quite a bit more fun and engaging than what we have now.

Imo, it was. Stormblood MCH was my favorite dps job. It took me until reaching 90 and seeing how little it got going from ShB to EW to realize how much I missed pre-rework MCH. Now I don't even touch MCH outside of PvP.

They didn't. But as I said, nobody was hardly playing it and the change moved away from something like...
shot1... (RNG chance at) shot2... (RNG chance at) shot3... click reload... repeat
...to all this exciting stuff that wowed everyone in the Job Actions trailer.

Do you misrepresent every older iteration of jobs you talk about? If the devs didn't say a thing, maybe don't lead with implying they did.

[Fourbestintoner]

Machinists use rifles? I wish, they have like 2 and the awful 1 handed animations ruin them.

[Jeeqbit]

Do you misrepresent every older iteration of jobs you talk about?

No... it literally was shot (RNG chance at shot2) (RNG chance at shot3) and one of the least played jobs of all. What we have now is far more fun.

If the devs didn't say a thing, maybe don't lead with implying they did.

I didn't imply they said it. What I meant is... they overhauled it for a reason ie. it was boring and nobody played it. Why else would it have become so flashy and exciting like Bard?

[GlowClam]

I like to play mostly machinist: revolver, rifle, machine gun match his appearance.

I suggest the following new job for FF14 7.0: The gunner or grenadier.

It is the physical equivalent of the Black Mage. Slowly, you have to know the mechanics of the game content well to position yourself with enough time to load and fire the cannon or howitzer. But then this job really deals damage.

Basic mechanics are based on loading and firing similar to the red mage in two-stroke. However, there are also three- and four-stroke mechanics that are set up in two-stroke: Charge, Propel, Fire or Charge, Propel, Aim, Fire.

Mines can be laid instead of AOE.

A special feature of the gunner is his need for bombs or mines, which must be provided by craftsmen. These can be used in the particularly powerful four-stroke rotations.

[Aravell]

What I meant is... they overhauled it for a reason ie. it was boring and nobody played it. Why else would it have become so flashy and exciting like Bard?

Uhh, BRD was never flashy and exciting back then. The flashiest skill BRD had in HW was Empyreal Arrow, the stuff you were spamming a lot like Straight Shot and Heavy Shot were hardly exciting. The more likely reason that MCH wasn't played by a lot of people is that it was a highly technical job that required low ping to even function properly and that's why it got reworked.

[Jeeqbit]

It is the physical equivalent of the Black Mage. Slowly, you have to know the mechanics of the game content well to position yourself with enough time to load and fire the cannon or howitzer. But then this job really deals damage.

We used to have cast times on Bard and Machinist in Heavensward. What happened was Bard became known as "bowmage" and went extinct (nobody played it and many Bard mains quit the game). Machinist had them too in addition to the issues I previously mentioned, so it wasn't exactly an appealing alternative. What you did was enabled a cast stance (Wanderer's Minuet and Gauss Barrel), you had to stand still and cast to do more damage, but you could disable the cast stance and move around, however your attacks would do significantly less damage. So where you could get away with it, you would enable the stance, stand still and cast. I didn't like this at first on both these jobs, but it grew on me... and then they removed it in Stormblood, leading to Bard's popularity exploding again in a complete 180.

Once SE has moved away from something it's hard to see them repeating it, although I'm not opposed to it and it would be nice for variety sake.

Basic mechanics are based on loading and firing similar to the red mage in two-stroke. However, there are also three- and four-stroke mechanics that are set up in two-stroke: Charge, Propel, Fire or Charge, Propel, Aim, Fire.

To a degree, Machinist did have an Ammo load then fire system. It's just that can't carry a job. Bard was doing all these flashy jumps and flips and was super fun to play, while Machinist was just standing there loading and firing as you described.

Aiming is an interesting idea and there is an aim system we use for quests, but SE mostly just has variations of "buff damage", "buff defense", "do damage" or "heal" as job mechanics.

Mines can be laid instead of AOE.

I suppose that is an idea since Machinist does it in PvP. Most jobs lost their "damage areas" except Dark Knight with Salted Earth, Ninja with Doton and Summoner with Garuda's attack.

A special feature of the gunner is his need for bombs or mines, which must be provided by craftsmen.

I couldn't see SE doing that. They had that dilemma with both Machinist and Gunbreaker and didn't go for it. Gunbreakers just magic their ammo and the only reason Thancred doesn't is because he can't use magic.

Uhh, BRD was never flashy and exciting back then. The flashiest skill BRD had in HW was Empyreal Arrow

I am not talking about Heavensward. I am talking about Stormblood, where it exploded in popularity again, in stark contrast to Machinist.

[Mayhemmer]

No... it literally was shot (RNG chance at shot2) (RNG chance at shot3) and one of the least played jobs of all. What we have now is far more fun.

Turns out if you boil down any job to 3 buttons, it'll sound boring. Who would have thought. You're knowingly misrepresenting how it played. Or maybe you don't know, and you're just full of it.

I didn't imply they said it. What I meant is... they overhauled it for a reason

See:

Which brings us to why they overhauled the whole concept of the job to move away from ammo and recharging... because it was boring compared to Bard that everyone was playing instead of it.

You knew what you were implying.

They overhauled it because they don't know how not to go heavy-handed. They didn't need to take the nuclear route, but whether I like it or not, they would likely have reworked it eventually anyway. I doubt old MCH would fit neatly into their little modern 2-minute design.

Learning how to efficiently manage ammunition cooldowns and the heat gauge to maximize damage windows was infinitely more engaging to me than pressing Reassemble, three 600p buttons, and going back to that shot1 > shot2 >shot3 spam that exists now more than it ever did in the past. Modern MCH puts me to sleep.

[Jeeqbit]

Turns out if you boil down any job to 3 buttons, it'll sound boring.

That's the thing, it wasn't always 3 buttons. Sometimes it was the same button because of RNG. The animations were also boring compared to Bard. Part of my point was that Machinist stood still, held up their gun and shot.

Bard was doing all these flips and angle attacks with lots of weaving and animations and it was just really fun to play. Machinist did have this in their heat phase, but the problem was not always being in their heat phase and the confusion players had over it.

You knew what you were implying.

Well you can believe what you want.

Learning how to efficiently manage ammunition cooldowns and the heat gauge to maximize damage windows was infinitely more engaging to me than pressing Reassemble, three 600p buttons, and going back to that shot1 > shot2 >shot3 spam that exists now more than it ever did in the past. Modern MCH puts me to sleep.

Sure, it was fun to someone who likes a technical class and something to become skilled at. Even the cast times in Heavensward grew on me as something to become good at. Many jobs were like that in the past. But animations seem quite a big deal to people as well and affect the feel of the job.

No matter how good a job is, if its competition is just easier or has the more flashy animations and comparatively more frequent spikes of excitement, it's probably going to lose the popularity contest. There are still jobs faced with that crisis even today and probably always will be if they don't play the same way, especially as the amount of jobs keeps expanding.

[Mayhemmer]

Well you can believe what you want.

Nice dodge. Again, you knew what you were implying was based off assumptions rather than anything tangible.

No matter how good a job is, if its competition is just easier or has the more flashy animations and comparatively more frequent spikes of excitement, it's probably going to lose the popularity contest.

Well that desire for flashy animations and frequent, easy dopamine hits at the press of 1-2 buttons is what, I can only guess, led the devs to dismember my once-favorite job and replace it with something I find far less rewarding or exciting technically. Seems to be a trend. One people aren't thrilled with. But I suppose there's always players out there with lower standards, so at least somebody is happy.