Dawntrail Healers need a rework

[Supersnow845]

The issue with the latter is that raising the damage taken is argumentative on just how much it should be raised (although I agree it should be raised), but even should it...tanks can self heal and other classes can mitigate...then there's the complexity of gear score and having to do that with ALL content...which even then does not futureproof it. Where as class designs are much easier as they are every expansion, and in between expansion. I recommend you try blue mage if you haven't already but that job has the key to what should be engaging healer gameplay.



Thanks for your opinion :3. I have decided to try it at the very least.

Raising healing requirements while so much of the party’s cumulative mitigation is on the DPS is also a big problem, abyssos was a problem because mistakes other party members made “looked” like it was a failure on the healers when really the healers were doing everything correctly

If they are going to up damage they need to consider removing mitigation from DPS and giving it back to the shield healer because the DPS would apparently rather wipe to a routine raidwide than press addle 99% of the time

Less relevant in casual content but still

[Aravell]

Raising healing requirements while so much of the party’s cumulative mitigation is on the DPS is also a big problem, abyssos was a problem because mistakes other party members made “looked” like it was a failure on the healers when really the healers were doing everything correctly

If they are going to up damage they need to consider removing mitigation from DPS and giving it back to the shield healer because the DPS would apparently rather wipe to a routine raidwide than press addle 99% of the time

Less relevant in casual content but still

Raising healing requirements without also spreading out damage frequency also has the side effect of making SCH+SGE not only a viable comp, but the best healer comp for safety. Which kind of puts WHM further down in the gutter since they have only Temperance to reduce damage while AST has 2 things and one of them is up every 60 seconds.

[Katish]

...

Not to mention SGE can out heal and out dps whm where it matters, which is kind of laughable in its own right. I think that proves the whole barrier/pure is a bad direction for healer design because tweaking a healer kit to answer "X" since it can't might put it above another healer "Y" that revolves around that being its main kit, now "X" is better at "Y" for what Y only does.

...

Absolutely agree, it's a direction I questioned in the first place when giving dps mitigation tools lel.



The healers need to be de-homogenized, but I see that being very unlikely due to uninspired job design.

[Shurrikhan]

Raising healing requirements without also spreading out damage frequency also has the side effect of making SCH+SGE not only a viable comp, but the best healer comp for safety. Which kind of puts WHM further down in the gutter since they have only Temperance to reduce damage while AST has 2 things and one of them is up every 60 seconds.

I don't think most people asking for greater healing requirements are asking for a flat % increase to the damage per existing raidwide. Else, it'd be at least as much a "mitigation requirement" as an actual "healing requirement".

Increasing healing requirements, and healing requirements alone (not mitigation requirements) would generally instead involve increasing the instances of damage dealt between existing attacks.

[Supersnow845]

I don't think most people asking for greater healing requirements are asking for a flat % increase to the damage per existing raidwide. Else, it'd be at least as much a "mitigation requirement" as an actual "healing requirement".

Increasing healing requirements, and healing requirements alone (not mitigation requirements) would generally instead involve increasing the instances of damage dealt between existing attacks.

Even still without nerfing the length of Mitigative abilities this sort of change would still benefit the shield healers more than the regen healers

With 14’s slow GCD and messy NetCode I can’t really think of any way to make regen healers more useful than shield healers

[Aravell]

I don't think most people asking for greater healing requirements are asking for a flat % increase to the damage per existing raidwide. Else, it'd be at least as much a "mitigation requirement" as an actual "healing requirement".

Increasing healing requirements, and healing requirements alone (not mitigation requirements) would generally instead involve increasing the instances of damage dealt between existing attacks.

No, I don't think anyone wants a flat % increase to every raidwide, unless they want WHM to be out entirely. I'm just pointing out that what SE thinks increasing healing required means is far from ideal, with the side effect of making double shield healer an appealing choice.

What is an acceptable solution would be increased frequency to increase pressure. What we're lacking right now is something that pressures our healing kit, a single heavy raidwide that overkills us by 10% without mit that has a bleed every minute does not pressure our massive healing kit since we can just burn 2 things on every raidwide since they're so sparse. I think there is a place for these heavy raidwides with bleeds attached, but they also need to have moderate pressure damage throughout the fight. We could also use what we got in Barbariccia EX, she does raidwide chip damage throughout the fight, a slow burn of resources through chip damage would also help regen healers shine because their regen will actually have usage.

[Katish]

No, I don't think anyone wants a flat % increase to every raidwide, unless they want WHM to be out entirely. I'm just pointing out that what SE thinks increasing healing required means is far from ideal, with the side effect of making double shield healer an appealing choice.

What is an acceptable solution would be increased frequency to increase pressure. What we're lacking right now is something that pressures our healing kit, a single heavy raidwide that overkills us by 10% without mit that has a bleed every minute does not pressure our massive healing kit since we can just burn 2 things on every raidwide since they're so sparse. I think there is a place for these heavy raidwides with bleeds attached, but they also need to have moderate pressure damage throughout the fight. We could also use what we got in Barbariccia EX, she does raidwide chip damage throughout the fight, a slow burn of resources through chip damage would also help regen healers shine because their regen will actually have usage.

I don't think even this is enough for "regen" healers to shine (I assume you mean pure given SGE is technically a regen healer and whm technically is less so in comparison)...even in Barb you can be fine with one healer. I think people praise Barb because it wasn't boring in terms of prog...but outside of prog it falls into the same issues as any other fight.

What pure healers need is the ditch of "pure and shield"...this should never have been a concept as mitigation will always be preferred. What needs to happen is the cull of mitigation skills on dps and tanks to be added back to healers, so all healers have the ability to answer whatever is thrown... and then have healers in down time focus on something that each can specialize in individually as to not be replaceable or comparable to another.

[Aravell]

I don't think even this is enough for "regen" healers to shine (I assume you mean pure given SGE is technically a regen healer and whm technically is less so in comparison)...even in Barb you can be fine with one healer. I think people praise Barb because it wasn't boring in terms of prog...but outside of prog it falls into the same issues as any other fight.

What pure healers need is the ditch of "pure and shield"...this should never have been a concept as mitigation will always be preferred. What needs to happen is the cull of mitigation skills on dps and tanks to be added back to healers, and having healers instead focus on something that each can specialize in individually as to not be replaceable or comparable to another.

By "regen healer", I mean the healers that have spammable regens on the GCD. Thinking about it more, the only way I can see them becoming relevant is if fights just had a constant percentage of HP removal every second, since HP removal bypasses shields and if the removal is non-stop and large enough, SGE and SCH may not be able to keep up with just Dawn+Physis. But the downside is that if the HP removal is too much, it would just become a massive chore to deal with.

[Katish]

By "regen healer", I mean the healers that have spammable regens on the GCD. Thinking about it more, the only way I can see them becoming relevant is if fights just had a constant percentage of HP removal every second, since HP removal bypasses shields and if the removal is non-stop and large enough, SGE and SCH may not be able to keep up with just Dawn+Physis. But the downside is that if the HP removal is too much, it would just become a massive chore to deal with.

That's why I vote for the removal of shield and pure and just let the healers answer the call however they like, then also increase damage done by mobs, boss, whatever and burst damage. To differentiate them should only come from their down time (i,e what they do). So if they ramp up damage, any combination of healers should theoretically work... the only difference is you have the choice between a shield or a heal. Which might actually allow for more unique fight encounter designs where one would be prioritized over the other.

[Sebazy]

Current healers give plenty for veteran healers. I've been healing in MMOs since they were called MUDs.

Lol, that's why true veterans like Minori, Nei, Fretty, Elia, Luna etc are all still actively playing and enjoying healing the current content right?

There is no class or role in any MMO that accommodates everyone. None. Find one class in any MMO ever that you think everyone loved and everyone could tailor exactly how they wanted to play it, and I'll point you to a thing that does not exist.

WoW druid, Everquest Shaman