What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Renathras]

Honestly?

I think the "no one was really good" "twist" has become so commonplace, it's now the trope/cliche.

Reddit had a thread of people praising Myths of the Realm (saw it completely opposite of the threads here on the topic), and one of the things people were talking about is how refreshing it was to have gods that were actually good guys for once, not some various shade of gray or secretly evil.

I've seen a similar discussion with people that like the "edgy" versions of Superman telling off people that like the "pure good guy" versions as somehow unable to appreciate something better. But I think people, especially in uncertain and chaotic times (like the ones we live in) like to see good guys that are just genuinely good guys.

I don't think "everyone was wrong" is a compelling story, and it's certainly not brave or risky or fresh; it's been done so much, it's the common thing/trope/cliche at this point. For example, Venat being "the good guy" the whole time after all when everyone thought they were going to do a twist and make her "secretly evil the whole time" was refreshing since the "secretly evil the whole time" is so overdone that everyone was expecting it.

I'm not certain, but I think some of the opposition to Venat being good (NOT ALL, just let me make that clear, but SOME) was due to people that were so absolutely ready for that, their expectation was subverted and they weren't able to process "No, she was actually genuinely good the whole time". That's how cliche and un-interesting/un-creative the "secretly evil the whole time" has become. It's like the bad guy in the first Harry Potter or the bad guy who was Ares in Wonder Women were both obvious from the start since modern media doesn't tend to have good guys that are actually that good, so we know when we first are introduced to them they're going to be the bad guy.

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I think NOT doing the "everyone was wrong" story was the braver and more creative, less cliche move at this point.

It's a common misconception...

Have I not pointed out it was stylistic several times?

In any case, I think this ultimately comes down to whether you buy into what ifs or not. If you buy into the what ifs, and ignore that many of them have either been somewhat or absolutely ruled out by the writers/producer (that is, if you ignore "Word of God"), then Venat COULD be wrong because MAYbe there was another solution.

But the game overall doesn't indicate that, seems to indicate the opposite, and the writer/producer have also held this position. That is, you can say you think they might have changed...but the story, writer, and producer are telling you they would not have. So you're having to say your view of the world is more correct than those who created it and literally wrote the characters and their decisions.

But we see this in real life, too - that people hindsight second guess and preach at people who, in the moment with imperfect knowledge, were actually making decisions and doing things.

As to your last point: The game has also been clear that cultists who will not change cannot always be reasoned with, and if they cannot, sometimes can't be saved. Lambs of Dalamud and some of the Dravanian cultists come to mind. People so convinced they were right, no amount of argument or evidence would convince them otherwise. We have those in the real world, too.

Oh, and Emet made it pretty clear that the Sundered ARE the natural successors of Etheirys in his mind.

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At the end of the day, you may believe whatever you want. But when the story, writer, and producer are all telling you something, and you have to reject what they're saying or hinting at as well as some things we do know about Human/sentient nature (Ancients would be included) and rely on hypothetical "what ifs" for your points to be valid, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to agree.

I'm not saying you're wrong. But I'm saying at best your position is not objectively certain.

Either way, people believing what they want is great, and with that I'll make my way out of the thread, I think.