A new tactic for the dissatisfied

[Jojoya]

So I am using the standalone right ? And according to you because I have the standalone I dont have steam ?

I'm sorry but what kind of take is this

You can have the standalone, AND STEAM for other games, you literally make no sense

That's not what I said at all.

I know you love to twist my words because you can't stand that I'm not a fellow FFXIV hater but this one was a doozy.

[FenyxRising]

That's not what I said at all.

I know you love to twist my words because you can't stand that I'm not a fellow FFXIV hater but this one was a doozy.

Then what's your point?

A PC player who doesn't use Steam or GOG is generally going to lack that catalog of games ready to play or at least install on a moment's whim. They're a lot more likely to stick with a game because they don't have the same ease of access to multiple games.

This is completely irrelevant unless you think most people who use the SE client doesn't have Steam ?

[AlexiaD]

That's not what I said at all.

I know you love to twist my words because you can't stand that I'm not a fellow FFXIV hater but this one was a doozy.

Then I'm open to understanding your point, because I really dont, you are implying that people on steam play games differently right, that's fine per say yeah if that's what you think ?

but what about it is different than someone playing standalone ? people on standalone also play steam games, the only way you could sort of make sense about what you're saying is if you are implying that people on standalone dont have steam, which lets be honest here is absolutely ridiculous

also the little "i'm not a fellow ffxiv hater" comment to try and make yourself look like a victim was a bit comical, i dont care about you being a hater or not, however i care if you try and make a point agaisnt something I say that makes absolutely no sense, which is the case here.

I will say it again for good measure

If your thinking is that steam players play differently, which seems to be what you think, I accept your opinion, that's absolutely fine

Then you mention :

The ones that are the heaviest Steam users are constantly jumping from game to game. Why? Because there's a massive catalog of games to try out at their fingertips and they don't want to chance missing out on stumbling across that one game they'll think is the greatest ever.

A PC player who doesn't use Steam or GOG is generally going to lack that catalog of games ready to play or at least install on a moment's whim. They're a lot more likely to stick with a game because they don't have the same ease of access to multiple games.

Which means you are talking about standalone players

You are directly implying with those sentences that standalone users dont use steam (?) and stick to one game, I just want you to understand how ridiculous of a take that is to think that would be the case

[Thurmnmurmn]

To this day I still don't understand why anyone uses steam as an argument (either for or against the game).
Every conversation turns into excuses as to why steam works or doesn't work for whatever argument.
We don't know any answers to these questions so please, stop using it as an argument. It's dumb.

[Jojoya]

Then I'm open to understanding your point, because I really dont, you are implying that people on steam play games differently right, that's fine per say yeah if that's what you think ?

but what about it is different than someone playing standalone ? people on standalone also play steam games, the only way you could sort of make sense about what you're saying is if you are implying that people on standalone dont have steam, which lets be honest here is absolutely ridiculous

also the little "i'm not a fellow ffxiv hater" comment to try and make yourself look like a victim was a bit comical, i dont care about you being a hater or not, however i care if you try and make a point agaisnt something I say that makes absolutely no sense, which is the case here.

I will say it again for good measure

If your thinking is that steam players play differently, which seems to be what you think, I accept your opinion, that's absolutely fine

Then you mention :



Which means you are talking about standalone players

You are directly implying with those sentences that standalone users dont use steam (?) and stick to one game, I just want you to understand how ridiculous of a take that is to think that would be the case

You are inferring something that I am not implying at all.

You seem to think that I'm talking about FFXIV players specifically. I'm not. I'm talking about all my friends across all games, regardless of whether or not they are playing FFXIV.

It is a difference I see in those who are heavy Steam users in general, regardless of whether or not they play FFXIV and regardless of whether they use Steam for their platform if they do, compared to those I know who do not use Steam but are on PC. Like you, I use the PC version of FFXIV but I also use Steam for other games (hence my comments elsewhere about how someone would think I don't play anything but Cities: Skiylines and Darkest Dungeon if they were monitoring my Steam activity).

I'm not pulling the victim card. If there's a victim here, it's you and you're doing it to yourself with your constant negative narrative. That's an unhealthy mindset to plant yourself in. But it's also your choice to do it.

And right on schedule, there's Titanmen on your heels. I'm starting to wonder if a couple of people around here are right and you two really are one and the same.

This is completely irrelevant unless you think most people who use the SE client doesn't have Steam ?

Japan exists and a good chunk of its gamers are using PCs even if consoles still account for the majority.

Steam is still new there and having a difficult time catching on because JP players don't like the dark interface and because Steam is pricing things in US Dollars for now.

Do I believe that in NA and EU most PC gamers, regardless of their FFXIV status, don't have Steam? I genuinely don't know but likely most do use Steam. That doesn't mean there isn't a sizeable number that won't use it for a variety of reasons.

Regardless, I don't see how that is supposed to change what I said about my personal experience with those who use Steam and those who don't. As I said, the heavy users I know jump from game to game and those that also play FFXIV tend to only play for about a month when a major patch is newly released before switching to other games, then returning to FFXIV when another major patch is released.

If your personal experience is different, then it's different.

As I said the chart is meaningless without something to compare it against showing that the activity is not normal.

[Renalt]

Touch. Some. Grass.

I'm in Arizona. We don't have grass to touch. Can someone mow their lawn and mail me some grass?

[AlexiaD]

You are inferring something that I am not implying at all.

You seem to think that I'm talking about FFXIV players specifically. I'm not. I'm talking about all my friends across all games, regardless of whether or not they are playing FFXIV.

It is a difference I see in those who are heavy Steam users in general, regardless of whether or not they play FFXIV and regardless of whether they use Steam for their platform if they do, compared to those I know who do not use Steam but are on PC. Like you, I use the PC version of FFXIV but I also use Steam for other games (hence my comments elsewhere about how someone would think I don't play anything but Cities: Skiylines and Darkest Dungeon if they were monitoring my Steam activity).

I'm not pulling the victim card. If there's a victim here, it's you and you're doing it to yourself with your constant negative narrative. That's an unhealthy mindset to plant yourself in. But it's also your choice to do it.

And right on schedule, there's Titanmen on your heels. I'm starting to wonder if a couple of people around here are right and you two really are one and the same.

1st of all, I aint dealing with your weird paranoia of seeing Titanmen everywhere, I aint a psychologist nor a psychiatrist, my alt accounts are very well visible, the name of the character always has the same ending to it, I have absolutely nothing to hide.

As for the actual claim, who cares about other games, this is about FFXIV and what you implied is exactly what I mentioned earlier, there is no misunderstanding to it, your point made absolutely 0 sense and now you are trying to talk to me about "my negativity" and literally going on about other topics because you know what you said made absolutely no sense.

Steam/Standalone are the same kind of players.

Burden is on you to show evidence since you are so insistent on it being different, I'll wait.

until then

Why would steam players behave differently than non-steam players?

So you just claim steam player base behaves very differently without source, got it.

[Jojoya]

As for the actual claim, who cares about other games, this is about FFXIV and what you implied is exactly what I mentioned earlier, there is no misunderstanding to it, your point made absolutely 0 sense and now you are trying to talk to me about "my negativity" and literally going on about other topics because you know what you said made absolutely no sense.

Because greater access to games will change what players choose to play and how often.

That shouldn't be difficult to figure out.

We can sit here and argue this out for the next decade but short of SE releasing active player counts by platform, neither side of the discussion has proof of anything other than the number of players logging into FFXIV through Steam has changed since Endwalker released.

I've pointed out reasons why I believe those numbers may not be an accurate sampling compared to the actual numbers for this game. The changes in the Lucky Bancho active character census numbers likewise don't agree with the Steam numbers.

You don't have any proof that those who don't log into FFXIV via Steam have the same gaming habits as those who do anymore than I have proof that they don't. Neither side has proof of anything here other than fewer players are logging to FFXIV via Steam now than when Endwalker launched.

You can sit there screaming "the sky is falling!" as much as you want but it's not going to change anything. SE has far more accurate data on the numbers than any player will ever have. They're going to know what the turnover has been, and how it compared to prior expansions. They're going to know what demographic is having the biggest impact on those numbers based on what content is seeing a larger drop in participation compared to the drops that occurred in previous expansions. They will react to anything out of the ordinary in whatever fashion makes the best business sense to them, which may mean they do nothing at all.

Just for the heck of it, I went to Steam to check the user reviews for Endwalker. If so many users of the Steam client have stopped playing because they feel the expansion is bad, I was expecting to see a fairly large number of negative reviews showing up in their graphs over the last few months.



We see the review bombing from the expansion start due to the log in queues then the negative reviews swiftly disappear.

Out of the last 100 reviews submitted to Steam (reaching back to December of last year), 77 are positive.

Of the 23 negative, it's a mix of reasons with the largest percentage complaining about trying to purchase the game and play for the first time followed by some of the same issues that have been brought up in the forums. Then there are the random Not Recommended reviews with comments that include "still waiting on the sex update" and "ass" (seriously, feel free to see for yourself).

If we look at the numbers going all that back to launch, there are 1317 reviews with 205 of them Not Recommended (again, mostly the review bombs because of the login problems).

Considering the discussions we've had here in recent weeks about how people usually only leave feedback when they're unhappy, doesn't it seem strange that 84% of reviews are positive during a period when the game has allegedly lost 70% of its players because the game sucks?

Or could it be that the drop isn't because players are unhappy but because most of them are just following normal MMORPG patterns and taking a break to play some of the other high profile titles that have been released in recent months?

We can't know short of tracking every single one of those players down and getting them to tell us why they are not currently playing.

Anyway, there's some proof that the number of players unhappy with the game aren't as high as some claim, coming from the same source that is supposedly showing players are unhappy and quitting. We're all free to interpret however we want. It still makes no difference.

SE is going to do what they want with the game.

[AlexiaD]

We can sit here and argue this out for the next decade but short of SE releasing active player counts by platform, neither side of the discussion has proof of anything other than the number of players logging into FFXIV through Steam has changed since Endwalker released.

Except you are the one pretending that they are different, the burden is actually on you, not me, gamers are gamers, be it on steam or any other pc platform, you can stop with that, it makes no sense.

You don't have any proof that those who don't log into FFXIV via Steam have the same gaming habits as those who do anymore than I have proof that they don't. Neither side has proof of anything here other than fewer players are logging to FFXIV via Steam now than when Endwalker launched

.

Once again, burden is on you, because it makes absolutely 0 sense, gamers are gamers.

Just for the heck of it, I went to Steam to check the user reviews for Endwalker. If so many users of the Steam client have stopped playing because they feel the expansion is bad, I was expecting to see a fairly large number of negative reviews showing up in their graphs over the last few months.

Really dude ? Lol, going by reviews now ? talk about grasping for straws

Anyway, there's some proof that the number of players unhappy with the game aren't as high as some claim, coming from the same source that is supposedly showing players are unhappy and quitting. We're all free to interpret however we want. It still makes no difference.

SE is going to do what they want with the game.

Thanks, the steam chart numbers prove otherwise, but you can have your echo chamber of toxic positivity if you want, that's fine with me, I will respond to it and prove you wrong with actual statistics though, something you are unable to provide because you have nothing to back your claims.

[Renathras]

Burden is on you to show evidence since you are so insistent on it being different, I'll wait.

No, actually.

When you introduce evidence to support your argument, the burden of proof is on you to show that it's true.

Not only did the Steam numbers NOT drop 70%, not only do the Steam numbers apples-to-apples against this same point in the last expansion NOT show a massive decline, but you've yet to prove to anyone that the Steam numbers ARE applicable to the entire playerbase. The onus/burden is actually upon you, attempting to use that statistic to bolster your argument, to show that the statistic is valid to the argument and case you're presenting. It's not on others.

This would be like someone saying that aliens exist and pointing to UFO stories as proof of it, then when people suggest the stories may not be accurate, demanding that they debunk every last UFO story ever told. The onus is on you to prove that the UFO stories are true, not on others to prove they are false.

EDIT:

I aint doing that again Renathras. Lol. Nope. I am not wasting my time.

Translation: I know you're right, Renathras, and I can't prove you wrong, so I'm going to pretend I did and hope no one calls my bluff.

Doesn't change the fact - YOU have to prove the Steam numbers are valid to your interpretation. If you cannot, then your argument BASED ON THAT is invalid. What is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, and you've provided no evidence that the Steam numbers are representative of the playerbase at large.

You said you had evidence to prove steam numbers are not indicative of total player numbers. That is a claim you made, not anyone else. You didnt just doubt the validity of the numbers presented, you went and made your own claim on top of it. And let me tell you, if you actually had that evidence it would be the easiest dunk on your haters in the world. You could make them look like absolute fools. Except you cant because you dont have that evidence.

Yeah, but I don't need to.

You make an assertion, you have to support it when people point out it may not hold.

You can't demand THEY prove it when it's your case to make.

I'll note you have yet to ask someone to prove that they are, so you've defeated your own argument.

I also didn't say that, btw, but...that's in the details so doesn't matter.

You sound like a broken record with your 70% drop. It's easy to find the post from last year where that claim was made. Spoiler, it was found by isolating a few month period after EW launch.

I sound like a broken record because people keep trying to make this claim even though it's been debunked over and over again.

Though, I am honestly getting tired of being the one to do it. Might let someone else go after the people being wrong on the internet for a while.