Zepla: Endwalker is the Worst FFXIV Expansion I have played

[Bonoki]

Yeah you totally didn’t say literally exactly that like 6 posts ago

I think they were speaking about from a new player perspective. I don't think what they said is particularly that bad though to really dog on them for.

[Stormpeaks]

I think they were speaking about from a new player perspective. I don't think what they said is particularly that bad though to really dog on them for.

That's actually what they said that though

They said you cant run out of backlog lol, and that even new players cant catch up.

[Supersnow845]

I think they were speaking about from a new player perspective. I don't think what they said is particularly that bad though to really dog on them for.

So the argument becomes “new people have such a backlog that existing players asking for more content in the game they actively pay for is bad/pointless”

Honestly that’s almost a worse argument

[Bonoki]

So the argument becomes “new people have such a backlog that existing players asking for more content in the game they actively pay for is bad/pointless”

Honestly that’s almost a worse argument

That isn't the interpretation I got from what they said, but if that's what the rest of you are reading out of it then so be it.

[Renathras]

That's actually what they said that though

They said you cant run out of backlog lol, and that even new players cant catch up.

It's literally not what they said. They didn't say "you cant run out of backlog". They literally said:

Especially when there's such a backlog of content that new players can basically never catch up in side content,

Yeah you totally didn’t say literally exactly that like 6 posts ago

Yeah, they didn't.

So it's not just me, you guys outright make up things you want other people to have said so you can attack weaker arguments than presented. The classic strawman fallacy. I'm not sure if I should feel better or worse that I'm not the only one you guys invent things to attack over.

I think they were speaking about from a new player perspective. I don't think what they said is particularly that bad though to really dog on them for.

This is the correct take.

That isn't the interpretation I got from what they said, but if that's what the rest of you are reading out of it then so be it.

It's not. Some specific posters are inventing things to accuse people of having said so they can attack and "defeat" those weak arguments. It's a straight up strawman fallacy and deception.

.

EDIT: You know the funny thing? I don't even agree with that person - I think having some long-term grindy content is good. But they're absolutely being unfairly attacked.

[Supersnow845]

It's literally not what they said. They didn't say "you cant run out of backlog". They literally said:





Yeah, they didn't.

So it's not just me, you guys outright make up things you want other people to have said so you can attack weaker arguments than presented. The classic strawman fallacy. I'm not sure if I should feel better or worse that I'm not the only one you guys invent things to attack over.



This is the correct take.



It's not. Some specific posters are inventing things to accuse people of having said so they can attack and "defeat" those weak arguments. It's a straight up strawman fallacy and deception.

.

EDIT: You know the funny thing? I don't even agree with that person - I think having some long-term grindy content is good. But they're absolutely being unfairly attacked.

The person literally said “new players will never catch up” as part of a wider argument for why grindy content is bad

There is only one way to interpret that and it basically amounts to “if you don’t have a backlog because you are an old player than too bad so sad” which is a terrible argument, this isn’t one of your “you aren’t taking the spirit of the post you are making the post what you want it to be” this is literally the only way you can interpret that post and taking the other persons “A leads to B B leads to C but if I just say A leads to B it doesn’t sound as bad” doesn’t change there is only a single way to interpret that post

If you take the statement at face value “new people can’t catch up on side content. Grinding is bad” please try to come up with a conclusion based on that sentence that doesn’t amount to “vets need to put up and shut up”

I know we are a collection of big bad boogeyman to you and you have this weird idea that you have to try to defend people being “dogpilled” by us but it’s not a straw man if that is the only way you can interpret that post

[Renathras]

The person literally said...

This is a problem I think you have - you interpret something one way, decide/think that's the ONLY way to interpret it, introduce negative stuff not in the original (the OP didn't say anything resembling "too bad so sad"), and then when people explain to you there are other interpretations or even if the original poster points out to you that wasn't what they said or meant, you insist it is still the only way to interpret it and must be what they meant, even if they outright tell you it wasn't.

For example, my interpretation of:

"backlog of content that new players can basically never catch up in side content[/QUOTE]

Veteran players have gone through a lot of their backlog, but a new player, there is so much content in the game already, even a trickle addition would be something one would be hard pressed to catch up to.

That's an entirely valid interpretation of that statement. Imagine if you were starting the game TODAY. First ever time you logged in. Think about just how much MSQ you have to go through if you aren't a cutscene skipper. Now think about all the optional dungeons. Optional raids. Optional PvP. Tens of thousands of achievements, hundreds for any one kind of content. All of ARR, HW, Eureka, and Bozja relics. All the sidequests. All the side-stories. All the Jobs to level. All the stuff to unlock and collect from mounts to minions to emotes to BLU spells.

Think about how much content if you were just going to 25% the game. That's a LOT.

Note that it says literally nothing about veterans - nor does it berate them as "too bad so sad". That was entirely an injection of your own mind.

Your way is not the only way to interpret it, "literally" or otherwise. The statement was not "new people can't catch up on side content. Grinding is bad". "Especially when there's such a backlog of content that new players can basically never catch up in side content, having the new side content no require you to spend hours a day grinding to cap this or grind out completions of this fate over and over is a net positive." does not actually make that statement anywhere. It says not grinding is a net positive, but makes no statement that grind is "bad". "But that's the ONLY way to interpre-" no, it's not. There are literally THREE other ways to interpret that outright; grinding is bad, grinding is neutral, grinding is good but not as good.

Your last line is you trying to deflect from being incorrect AND you trying to derail the thread with more personal attacks, so I'm not going to entertain it. (I do think it's funny you just indicted the very thing you do and don't realize it). I'll just say, again, that no, it's not "the only way you can interpret that post".

You need to stop doing this thing where you get stuck on YOUR interpretation and insist not only is it true, but that it's the only one, even after the OP themselves tells you it was not what they were saying.

[Supersnow845]

snip

Taking the first half of the point then stopping isn’t an interpretation, think of the wider point the person is making

1) new people will never catch up (and valid statement even though I think the volume of content the majority of new people will genuinely interact with is overblown)
2) grinding is in general bad
3) this was in a thread mostly being populated by older veterans stating their isn’t enough content in the game

You basically just responded to 1 and said “yep 1 is true”, but if 1 is true and used with 2 and 3 what other meaning are you basically able to draw from this other than “what vets want really doesn’t matter because there is enough content in the game”, come on this is basic context, the whole point of writing is you don’t have say every single word that that you mean, you can’t come up with a way that poster saying 1 and 2 in the context of 3 means she is totally pro adding more content for veterans, her point is totally clear, the OP never even actually refuted my point that her statement basically means she doesn’t care about vets all she said was the way I wrote her statement back to her wasn’t “exactly what she said”

Seriously do we all have to type like 5 year olds to understand context, arguing on semantics of how I quoted a person isn’t saying the way I interpreted their point is wrong we are basically at the point of someone saying “the sky is green” another person saying “it’s actually blue” then a third person coming in and saying “acshooly they didn’t say the sky WASNT blue they said the sky was green”