Zepla: Endwalker is the Worst FFXIV Expansion I have played

[CNitsah]

Especially when there's such a backlog of content that new players can basically never catch up in side content, having the new side content no require you to spend hours a day grinding to cap this or grind out completions of this fate over and over is a net positive.

There is the problem. I get the feeling. But what about those that don't have any backlog left? That's where the problem lie. it's mmo. Not too much grinding is good thing, but adding zero longevity content so newer players can catch up and old players can go fuck themselves is not a solution. You also have to keep those occupied.

Once again, I'll call to the Bozja/Zadnor example. It was not perfect, and but at least it kept you occupied, with objectives that won't really matter for newer players. New player that wanted to get up to date don't need to collect the 600m mettle points needed to get all the 3 medals to lvl 10. But that was an objective made to keep the older players occupied, along with getting the haircuts and mounts of the place. Some people might never get the mount. Big oof. And those were incentives that took a long time and were simple enough to get player invested (contrary to thing like deep dungeons, that have big entry barriers, making it "not worth it"). But they kept the player invested. That's the kind of incentive the game currently lacks.

It kinda pains me a game that, at one point in time, had for principle to not let the longtime player down (because they were there during the 1.0) doesnt care about long time players anymore, and don't give them anything to do.

[ZephyrMenodora]

There is the problem. I get the feeling. But what about those that don't have any backlog left? That's where the problem lie. it's mmo. Not too much grinding is good thing, but adding zero longevity content so newer players can catch up and old players can go fuck themselves is not a solution. You also have to keep those occupied.

Once again, I'll call to the Bozja/Zadnor example. It was not perfect, and but at least it kept you occupied, with objectives that won't really matter for newer players. New player that wanted to get up to date don't need to collect the 600m mettle points needed to get all the 3 medals to lvl 10. But that was an objective made to keep the older players occupied, along with getting the haircuts and mounts of the place. Some people might never get the mount. Big oof. And those were incentives that just were long, and they were simple enough to get player invested (contrary to thing like deep dungeons, that have big entry barriers, making it "not worth it"). But they kept the player invested. That's the kind of incentive the game currently lacks.

It kinda pains me a game that, at one point in time, had for principle to not let the longtime player down (because they were there during the 1.0) doesnt care about long time players anymore, and don't give them anything to do.

I feel EW patches put too much dev time into solo activities that don’t have longevity like using NpCs for story dungeons and Islands. Adding NPCs to MsQ dungeons every patch is also probably a feature most vets will never even use. I haven’t. Even new players I can’t see using them more than once if that.

Many MMO players much prefer long-term engaging activities they can do with others. We didn’t really get that in EW.

[Lauront]

I feel EW patches put too much dev time into solo activities that don’t have longevity like using NpCs for story dungeons and Islands. Adding NPCs to MsQ dungeons every patch is also probably a feature most vets will never even use. I haven’t. Even new players I can’t see using them more than once if that.

Many MMO players much prefer long-term engaging activities they can do with others. We didn’t really get that in EW.

Well it's part of a deliberate design decision to make it more single player-like/friendly, a key goal they outlined for the next 10 years of the game. People voiced concerns over this being revealed as a major aspiration and selling point of the MMO for the next 10 years for this precise reason. And while I don't think it would be a problem in and of itself, if there were other stuff going on and they made full use of it (e.g. using it to provide more fine-tuned segregation in difficulty), the fact that there isn't and that the resources allowed to them are so constrained worsens the situation.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Well it's part of a deliberate design decision to make it more single player-like/friendly, a key goal they outlined for the next 10 years of the game. People voiced concerns over this being revealed as a major aspiration and selling point of the MMO for the next 10 years for this precise reason. And while I don't think it would be a problem in and of itself, if there were other stuff going on and they made full use of it (e.g. using it to provide more fine-tuned segregation in difficulty), the fact that there isn't and that the resources allowed to them are so constrained worsens the situation.

I understand their desire to attract new players, and goal of attracting players who don't like playing with others so they can play this as a single player game.

But at some point when it feels like a lot of development time went into this, and not for content for actual MMO players and veterans who have supported this game all along, or for many years, I can't blame veterans for feeling slighted.

I do feel they chose this at the expense of veterans. I don't feel like they hired more people and this was just an extra. Because so much time went into this, I do feel there is less for ME to do as a veteran, and at the end of the day, I care mostly about whether I and people in my circle that I play with feel enjoyment. Not people who haven't played the 10 years the game has been out. Especially if they are solo-only and I'm unlikely to ever run into them.

[Nebelheim]

I understand their desire to attract new players, and goal of attracting players who don't like playing with others so they can play this as a single player game.

But at some point when it feels like a lot of development time went into this, and not for content for actual MMO players and veterans who have supported this game all along, or for many years, I can't blame veterans for feeling slighted.

I do feel they chose this at the expense of veterans. I don't feel like they hired more people and this was just an extra. Because so much time went into this, I do feel there is less for ME to do as a veteran, and at the end of the day, I care mostly about whether I and people in my circle that I play with feel enjoyment. Not people who haven't played the 10 years the game has been out. Especially if they are solo-only and I'm unlikely to ever run into them.

I feel like they started focusing more on retaining new players with shadowbringers and double downed on developing for new players with endwalkers. Compared to arr-stormblood where they provided content for both veterans and new players.

[ZephyrMenodora]

I feel like they started focusing more on retaining new players with shadowbringers and double downed on developing for new players with endwalkers. Compared to arr-stormblood where they provided content for both veterans and new players.

It's kind of sad.

While I dislike clickbait titles, and was ready to immediately dismiss the video because of this, they are attention grabbing and I do think there are a lot of good points in the Zepla video. And whether it's deserved or not, I think the game devs do like Zepla and she does have a platform to hopefully reach them.

The more I thought about it and listened, the video is coming from a good place and the game won't succeed long term if it continues to ignore the playerbase who made the success of this game possible to begin with.

I already thought this game was new player friendly since the game is so easy for the most part.

[Nebelheim]

It's kind of sad.

While I dislike clickbait titles, and was ready to immediately dismiss the video because of this, they are attention grabbing and I do think there are a lot of good points in the Zepla video. And whether it's deserved or not, I think the game devs do like Zepla and she does have a platform to hopefully reach them.

The more I thought about it and listened, the video is coming from a good place and the game won't succeed long term if it continues to ignore the playerbase who made the success of this game possible to begin with.

I already thought this game was new player friendly since the game is so easy for the most part.

I agree i think zepla does seem to still care a lot about the game and seems genuine with her love for it and her criticisms and it seemed to hurt her for feeling she needed a break from a game she played since heavansward. And her point on the game starting to feel like a single player game and focusing too much on the hyper casual side could be just as detrimental to the game as what wow did on the extreme end of hardcore. They need a balance of casual and hardcore and focus on both ends not on the extreme end of casualization.

[Bonoki]

I understand their desire to attract new players, and goal of attracting players who don't like playing with others so they can play this as a single player game.

But at some point when it feels like a lot of development time went into this, and not for content for actual MMO players and veterans who have supported this game all along, or for many years, I can't blame veterans for feeling slighted.

I do feel they chose this at the expense of veterans. I don't feel like they hired more people and this was just an extra. Because so much time went into this, I do feel there is less for ME to do as a veteran, and at the end of the day, I care mostly about whether I and people in my circle that I play with feel enjoyment. Not people who haven't played the 10 years the game has been out. Especially if they are solo-only and I'm unlikely to ever run into them.

I feel like they started focusing more on retaining new players with shadowbringers and double downed on developing for new players with endwalkers. Compared to arr-stormblood where they provided content for both veterans and new players.

I can't help but wonder if they thought veterans would want a break after the 10 year journey to EW, so they focused on new players being able to catch up for the fresh new adventure in 7.0

A lousy explanation but one I could very well see the dev team expressing

[Lauront]

There's a healthy balance to be struck where both new and veteran players can be appeased. As it stands, I very much get the impression that the game is slowly marching towards another 1.0 of lesser proportions due to taking veteran players for granted.

It's why I'd like Yoshi-P to sit down and devote some time specifically talking about what his plans are for veteran players rather than tell them to 'go play ultimate' or to 'take a break'.

He's devoting considerable time and effort into revamping large swathes of the game for the sake of new players. Which would be fine, ordinarily, if such future proofing didn't come at such a steep cost elsewhere.

I understand their desire to attract new players, and goal of attracting players who don't like playing with others so they can play this as a single player game.

But at some point when it feels like a lot of development time went into this, and not for content for actual MMO players and veterans who have supported this game all along, or for many years, I can't blame veterans for feeling slighted.

I do feel they chose this at the expense of veterans. I don't feel like they hired more people and this was just an extra. Because so much time went into this, I do feel there is less for ME to do as a veteran, and at the end of the day, I care mostly about whether I and people in my circle that I play with feel enjoyment. Not people who haven't played the 10 years the game has been out. Especially if they are solo-only and I'm unlikely to ever run into them.

That appears to be the trade-off they're gambling on. There seems to be a lot of churn in the LB player statistics (although the new player rate is now dropping) and the current model they seem to be working towards is sating players who are newer and therefore have a backlog of stuff to work through before they begin running out of content on the one hand, and people who are content to just log in for every major (and maybe minor .x5) patch.

The issue, as has been mentioned, is that when you eventually get to the point where there's fewer more experienced players logged on, the social experience decays... So once the new player churn eventually dies down, you're stuck with not an awful lot to do at max level content and not much to hook people into sticking around to make that viable. That explains the focus on making the game more single-player viable, but I don't think it can compete with dedicated single player (or even some coop) games so I'm not really convinced this will pay off.

[PercibelTheren]

I feel EW patches put too much dev time into solo activities that don’t have longevity like using NpCs for story dungeons and Islands. Adding NPCs to MsQ dungeons every patch is also probably a feature most vets will never even use. I haven’t. Even new players I can’t see using them more than once if that.

Many MMO players much prefer long-term engaging activities they can do with others. We didn’t really get that in EW.

I'm honestly starting to wonder if all this "future proofing" of the game by making more and more content soloable will be a self-fulfilling prophecy where players are either pushed into doing things alone by virtue of the content released, or many people leave the game because they miss the social aspects of the game.