A new tactic for the dissatisfied

[Renathras]

Source please

Still waiting on the source that the playerbase as a whole has dropped 70%.

I can provide the source for the above as soon as that source is provided.

[Saraide]

Still waiting on the source that the playerbase as a whole has dropped 70%.

I can provide the source for the above as soon as that source is provided.

So you just claim steam player base behaves very differently without source, got it.

[Renathras]

So you just claim steam player base behaves very differently without source, got it.

Nope, didn't say that.

I said I'll give you the source when you provide the source the playerbase as a whole has dropped 70%.

EDIT:

psst - I also didn't say they "behaves very differently", either. At least get the claim right.

EDIT2:

It is your claim or you have no claim.

It literally wasn't my claim. You quoted my actual claim. Now you're trying to waste my post count. I won't give you the satisfaction here, so you'll have to take an edit instead.

You even quoted me:

Partly this.

Steam players are also generally more diverse than just the MMO or JRPG markets. That is, different likes and different preferences

...showing you know I didn't make the claim!

Specifically, Steam as a platform sells many types of games. Very few people only have one game in their Steam library, or only MMOs. As for preferences, you simply look at the Steam Charts. The most popular games are generally not MMOs, or only MMOs. This means the average Steam user is not strictly a MMO/JRPG player. Indeed, right now, there's only one arguable JRPG (a battle royal) in the top ten, and no MMORPGs.

The more difficult question to answer would be if the Steam FFXIV playerbase is identical to the non-Steam FFXIV playerbase, but we have no real data to support either conclusion, so both must be treated as suspect until support is provided.

They tend to make claims a lot without any data to back them up then expect others to provide sources.

Ah, the third person passive aggressive heckling peanut gallery has arrived.

.

In any case, I'll note the 70% overall FFXIV player drop number has not been show - neither an actual statistic showing it directly NOR the Steam statistic + another statistic showing the Steam and non-Steam FFXIV playerbases are identical. So it was a claim made with no evidence which, of course, neither of you take issue with, because you want them to be true and agree with the people presenting those "statistics" who refuse to provide sources.

Good job having double standards.

[Saraide]

Nope, didn't say that.

I said I'll give you the source when you provide the source the playerbase as a whole has dropped 70%.

EDIT:

psst - I also didn't say they "behaves very differently", either. At least get the claim right.

It is your claim or you have no claim. You cant say they behave the same and then say steam numbers are not representative. This claim is also independent of any specific claim about how much player numbers dropped. If steam numbers showed an increase by 30% or whatever you would still bring up the same point that steam players behave differently and you would still have to prove that.

[Nebelheim]

So you just claim steam player base behaves very differently without source, got it.

They tend to make claims a lot without any data to back them up then expect others to provide sources.

[Jojoya]

So you just claim steam player base behaves very differently without source, got it.

My personal experience with friends who are Steam users:

The ones that are the heaviest Steam users are constantly jumping from game to game. Why? Because there's a massive catalog of games to try out at their fingertips and they don't want to chance missing out on stumbling across that one game they'll think is the greatest ever.

A PC player who doesn't use Steam or GOG is generally going to lack that catalog of games ready to play or at least install on a moment's whim. They're a lot more likely to stick with a game because they don't have the same ease of access to multiple games.

Friends who are playing PS4/5 can act somewhat like Steam users except they're more likely to be playing multiple games at the same time instead of jumping to one and sticking with it until they get bored then jumping to another.

Why the difference? I haven't got a clue. And of course that's all anecdotal based on my gaming friends. Others may notice different patterns with their own friends. I wouldn't say it's the entire Steam player base that acts differently from all other FFXIV players but certainly having that large games catalog sitting right there changes the playing behavior of many.

The problem we're running into with getting a Steam chart graph specific to FFXIV numbers is that we're not getting a comparison point against similar games on Steam and what variation they have in their users. Is this a phenomenon unique to FFXIV and only FFXIV during Endwalker, is it typical of all MMORPGs or is there something else going on?

I know it was typical of WoW post Wrath at least while I was still playing. There would be a huge influx of players both new and returning at the start of an expansion. By the time the first major patch came out, the game would already be down 30% or so. By the last patch, it would be down about 60%. Then the next expansion would release, the majority of players would return so the launch numbers would be similar to the prior launch numbers and the cycle would repeat. I think that held up until Shadowland, when players finally gave up and subscription numbers bottomed out.

It's easy to take a graph with numbers and interpret it anyway you want but it doesn't mean much unless you can establish what activity is considered "normal and healthy" for a particular game. Personal experience with MMORPGs says that number dropping large percentages over the course of an expansion is normal and so even if the 70% drop is accurate, it doesn't alarm me. The numbers will jump back up next Spring as we get close to Dawntrail and players return. If this game was profitable enough in SE's eyes 8 years ago when it had a quarter of the players it had at the start of Endwalker, the current population isn't going to alarm them even if alarms those who are obsessed by how many others are playing the same game they are.

It's about 90 degrees outside. Hard pass.

That's still a comfy temp as long as it's not humid. I hope it's not humid.

[AlexiaD]

.

The ones that are the heaviest Steam users are constantly jumping from game to game. Why? Because there's a massive catalog of games to try out at their fingertips and they don't want to chance missing out on stumbling across that one game they'll think is the greatest ever.

A PC player who doesn't use Steam or GOG is generally going to lack that catalog of games ready to play or at least install on a moment's whim. They're a lot more likely to stick with a game because they don't have the same ease of access to multiple games.

So I am using the standalone right ? And according to you because I have the standalone I dont have steam ?

I'm sorry but what kind of take is this

You can have the standalone, AND STEAM for other games, you literally make no sense

[Jojoya]

So I am using the standalone right ? And according to you because I have the standalone I dont have steam ?

I'm sorry but what kind of take is this

You can have the standalone, AND STEAM for other games, you literally make no sense

That's not what I said at all.

I know you love to twist my words because you can't stand that I'm not a fellow FFXIV hater but this one was a doozy.

[FenyxRising]

That's not what I said at all.

I know you love to twist my words because you can't stand that I'm not a fellow FFXIV hater but this one was a doozy.

Then what's your point?

A PC player who doesn't use Steam or GOG is generally going to lack that catalog of games ready to play or at least install on a moment's whim. They're a lot more likely to stick with a game because they don't have the same ease of access to multiple games.

This is completely irrelevant unless you think most people who use the SE client doesn't have Steam ?

[Jojoya]

Then I'm open to understanding your point, because I really dont, you are implying that people on steam play games differently right, that's fine per say yeah if that's what you think ?

but what about it is different than someone playing standalone ? people on standalone also play steam games, the only way you could sort of make sense about what you're saying is if you are implying that people on standalone dont have steam, which lets be honest here is absolutely ridiculous

also the little "i'm not a fellow ffxiv hater" comment to try and make yourself look like a victim was a bit comical, i dont care about you being a hater or not, however i care if you try and make a point agaisnt something I say that makes absolutely no sense, which is the case here.

I will say it again for good measure

If your thinking is that steam players play differently, which seems to be what you think, I accept your opinion, that's absolutely fine

Then you mention :



Which means you are talking about standalone players

You are directly implying with those sentences that standalone users dont use steam (?) and stick to one game, I just want you to understand how ridiculous of a take that is to think that would be the case

You are inferring something that I am not implying at all.

You seem to think that I'm talking about FFXIV players specifically. I'm not. I'm talking about all my friends across all games, regardless of whether or not they are playing FFXIV.

It is a difference I see in those who are heavy Steam users in general, regardless of whether or not they play FFXIV and regardless of whether they use Steam for their platform if they do, compared to those I know who do not use Steam but are on PC. Like you, I use the PC version of FFXIV but I also use Steam for other games (hence my comments elsewhere about how someone would think I don't play anything but Cities: Skiylines and Darkest Dungeon if they were monitoring my Steam activity).

I'm not pulling the victim card. If there's a victim here, it's you and you're doing it to yourself with your constant negative narrative. That's an unhealthy mindset to plant yourself in. But it's also your choice to do it.

And right on schedule, there's Titanmen on your heels. I'm starting to wonder if a couple of people around here are right and you two really are one and the same.

This is completely irrelevant unless you think most people who use the SE client doesn't have Steam ?

Japan exists and a good chunk of its gamers are using PCs even if consoles still account for the majority.

Steam is still new there and having a difficult time catching on because JP players don't like the dark interface and because Steam is pricing things in US Dollars for now.

Do I believe that in NA and EU most PC gamers, regardless of their FFXIV status, don't have Steam? I genuinely don't know but likely most do use Steam. That doesn't mean there isn't a sizeable number that won't use it for a variety of reasons.

Regardless, I don't see how that is supposed to change what I said about my personal experience with those who use Steam and those who don't. As I said, the heavy users I know jump from game to game and those that also play FFXIV tend to only play for about a month when a major patch is newly released before switching to other games, then returning to FFXIV when another major patch is released.

If your personal experience is different, then it's different.

As I said the chart is meaningless without something to compare it against showing that the activity is not normal.