Why are there no multi-hit skills on Sage?

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

It's on both, maybe your settings are different, but it's always been like this for me.

CMIIW, but I remember they have their own chances to crit/dh/cdh too. I.e. 1st hit may do normal dmg but 2nd and 3rd can crit separately.

[IceBlueNinja]

I agree with points that are correct and disagree with points that are incorrect or I don’t personally like if they are arguments and not statements

I disagree with ren a lot because most of the time I don’t like his points or I find them flawed in some way, agreeing with him when he makes a true statement doesn’t make me a hypocrite it means that I don’t arbitrarily defend my “side” like you apparently seem to do

Not quite sure what region you play on makes any difference, SCH is not the least popular on any data centre nor is SGE the most popular on any data centre

And no I don’t make false statements about the healers because I don’t have a vendetta against any of them like you seem to have with SCH for some reason

Defend my side ? What side are you talking about now lol? Its it a crime to not like something? Yes you do have a vendatta on sage like most do because anytime there is a sage topic its always some negative remakes by you never seen not one positive thing ever.

[Supersnow845]

Defend my side ? What side are you talking about now lol? Its it a crime to not like something? Yes you do have a vendatta on sage like most do because anytime there is a sage topic its always some negative remakes by you never seen not one positive thing ever.

As in you implied I only agreed with someone I usually disagree with (ren) in order to attack you, I’m totally happy to agree with people not on my “side” in the general healer arguments if they make valid points

As for things I like about SGE
-kardia is inherently an interesting mechanic even if it’s a bit undercooked and I like how I can target target rather than hoping eos heals the right person
-haima and panhaima especially are good skills and I like how much you can optimise panhaima because of its expiration heal
-taurochole is far more accessible than protraction as a form of single target mitigation which SCH really lacks
-SGE is the best healer to play in dungeons because it actually has a somewhat interesting AOE rotation in higher levels
-SGE’s weapons are far better than SCH’s outdated books
-SGE fills a good niche of being the simple low APM shield healer when prior to EW if you wanted to shield heal your options were AST or SCH which also takes pressure off WHM as the “baby’s first healer” and makes shield healing seem less imposing

I don’t like SGE because I think it’s a poor copy of SCH in an era when we were really relying on a new healer to revitalise the healer space and I think SGE failed at that, that doesn’t mean I can’t see the benefits of the class and nor does that mean I don’t or won’t play SGE

[Shurrikhan]

Ok played alot in japan played less on america so your point is invalid, oh now you wanna agree with Ren for once cause he said something that you actually like harhar, yet then at one point your always chewing up his points, hypocrisy at its finest.

People are free to agree with the points they agree with and disagree with the points they disagree with regardless of whom they come from... The heck are you on about?

Which seems the more likely: that some random other poster is so obsessed with you or your position that he'd give errant information --but somehow disguise this by citing someone else, let alone someone he usually disagrees with-- just to call you out, or that simply that (A) you gave out misinformation that hurt your credibility and should probably slow down and check your statements and make them understandably if you want to be believed, and (B) a fair portion of Ren's points are solid/agreeable to many people?

[Aravell]

CMIIW, but I remember they have their own chances to crit/dh/cdh too. I.e. 1st hit may do normal dmg but 2nd and 3rd can crit separately.

Yes, each hit is calculated separately, that's why there's damage variance and why you can get only 1 or 2 hits that crit. I can't get a picture though, because it refuses to crit for me, so I gave up.

[IceBlueNinja]

People are free to agree with the points they agree with and disagree with the points they disagree with regardless of whom they come from... The heck are you on about?

Which seems the more likely: that some random other poster is so obsessed with you or your position that he'd give errant information --but somehow disguise this by citing someone else, let alone someone he usually disagrees with-- just to call you out, or that simply that (A) you gave out misinformation that hurt your credibility and should probably slow down and check your statements and make them understandably if you want to be believed, and (B) a fair portion of Ren's points are solid/agreeable to many people?

Oh here comes the bandwagon, whos speaking to you ?

[AnotherPerson]

Yes, each hit is calculated separately, that's why there's damage variance and why you can get only 1 or 2 hits that crit. I can't get a picture though, because it refuses to crit for me, so I gave up.

Here you go.


Checked the battle log to make sure it wasn't a regular attack that does it. Here's 2 different instances where critical hit is involved on the Battle Log. The red and green arrows indicate the effects of the used skill. In this case, Dream within a dream attacks thrice and there's different critical hit variance for each attack. Bloodbath calculates based on damage and has a maximum scale based on enemy's HP. The first battle log screenshot was against a Lv 1 training dummy so bloodbath all stayed the same because it can't heal more than a certain amount of the enemy's HP. The second one was against a lv 50 training dummy. Kardia has its own healing potency so it doesn't have a finnicky scaling based on enemy's remaining HP and damage.
Img 1:


Img 2:

[Renathras]

People are free to agree with the points they agree with and disagree with the points they disagree with regardless of whom they come from...

...while TRUE, I've noticed that people will often carry a grudge against some people so hard they legitimately WON'T agree with them even if they're saying the same things. Sabezy just said she's "done with me" for agreeing with someone who literally said something I've said many times, and then stated her position, which is in agreement (on several of the major bullet points and to a degree overall) with my own position. Ty and I actually agreed on a number of things, but he would attack me for it or refuse to admit when we did. Some people here have outright accused me of being disingenuous when I agreed with them...on positions I'd already been on the record holding, even accusing me of trying to pull something by being too nice.

Note that I DON'T think that's what Snow's doing here, but I am saying it does happen. Also: I don't think that Ice is right, but I don't think he was giving out "misinformation that hurt (his) credibility", either.

Though...this is the first I'm hearing that a fair portion of my points are solid/agreeable to many people. o.O

I'm a bit shocked you of all people are saying that considering...I...don't recall you really praising my points as solid or agreeable before. I appreciate it, but...am taken aback by the unexpected.

Oh here comes the bandwagon, whos speaking to you ?

It...does happen.

Again, though, I don't think Snow's wrong here, and I think your position isn't fact. Opinion/subjective views can absolutely be valid (no one can say you "feel" wrong, so to speak), but I tend to think both SCH and SGE are decent. I don't think either is horribly badly designed or implemented right now. I know I'm UNUSUAL in this, but I actually do like both of them and how they're different from one another.

EDIT:

Replying to you below in the other thread, Shurrikhan. Because that discussion is going on there, not here. You know I'm not a fan of people ragging on folks in completely different threads and the like.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6326648

[Shurrikhan]

Here you go.

Nice. That quite thoroughly demonstrates all the technical aspects.

Broader question, though: Is it feel better/necessary for Kardia's interactions to exploit multi-hits specifically, or just that it should be able to exploit variances in its triggering GCDs?

I feel like literally doubling/tripling/quadrupling its value via multi-hits would mean, in accordant balance, that the single-hit version would hardly be noticeable, so I'm a little worried about attempting to give it such a range.

Simply having it scale with damage, though, would already fit its bigger GCD hits quite nicely, I would think.

...while TRUE, I've noticed that people will often carry a grudge against some people so hard they legitimately WON'T agree with them even if they're saying the same things. Sabezy just said she's "done with me" for agreeing with someone who literally said something I've said many times, and then stated her position, which is in agreement (on several of the major bullet points and to a degree overall) with my own position. Ty and I actually agreed on a number of things, but he would attack me for it or refuse to admit when we did. Some people here have outright accused me of being disingenuous when I agreed with them...on positions I'd already been on the record holding, even accusing me of trying to pull something by being too nice.

Which had very little to do with the position so much as that said poster was very, very obviously using a strawman (that the current discourse had supposed that any increased offensive agency on healers would necessarily be mere a 123 combo) just to smirch a far broader position (that the current Broil spam gameplay can be favorably replaced/augmented through additions to healers' downtime depth).

Sebazy, myself, and others gave the benefit of the doubt at first that he had simply seen the healer 123 combos idea elsewhere and assumed it was far more popular than it actually was and contextualized it for him, only to be repeatedly ignored in favor of a red herring and blatant misinformation. By the point of your agreeing with the poster, his behavior had clearly gone the way of trolling/purposefully derailing, and given the timing of your previous responses around his own, it probably seemed likely you were aware of that.

Sebazy herself had already concurred with that poster. The difference would be the when (before he purposely ignored all factual correction and repeatedly pretended that no one had already and again contested the idea) and why (providing context, rather than coming in after the fact to join the guy in beating down a strawman to celebrate a moment of "Eyy! We agree!").

I'm a bit shocked you of all people are saying that considering...

If I get time to read prior posts, I tend to cite those who beat to a given point that I felt needed to be made, regardless of who made it. That's almost as often yours as, say, Roe's, Ty's, or Aravell's.

Again, we've agreed on a lot of shit. We just approach certain things rather differently, wherein I like to find a means to make all parties happy first (by resolving unnecessary bottlenecks / removing unnecessary constraints) and compromise only if necessary, whereas it's felt like you tend to jump straight towards that compromise, trying to resolve who should get what portions of time on the 8-lane intersection while I'd have just installed a roundabout.

[Absurdity]

Broader question, though: Is it feel better/necessary for Kardia's interactions to exploit multi-hits specifically, or just that it should be able to exploit variances in its triggering GCDs?

I feel like literally doubling/tripling/quadrupling its value via multi-hits would mean, in accordant balance, that the single-hit version would hardly be noticeable, so I'm a little worried about attempting to give it such a range.

I would replace already existing Sage oGCDs with those multi-hit abilities, so the normal single-hit version would still be noticeable as your passive healing (like Eos) since all of your big Kardia heals are still restricted by cooldowns.

I think the plan isn't really to just staple high potency Kardia healing on top of the already strong oGCD heals that Sage has, but replace the fire and forget abilities with something that interacts with your core job mechanic.