I miss HW

[Elissar]

i miss turn based combat and fatigue system
truly immersive experience

[Absimiliard]

And still coils makes me feel that, even going in as a level 90 character coils fills you with a sense of dread and makes you feel like you are actually in danger

Dalamud was just so perfect in how it affected the world it’s sad that 1.15-1.23b are just lumped in with the rest of trashy legacy and forgotten

I think part of it is the Coils aesthetic. It creates the impression you're A.) trapped; and B.) surrounded on all sides by things that want you dead. It's a hostile environment within a hostile environment. The way they incorporated Allagan tech into the scenery really just worked. It was ever-present, but you weren't having it jammed completely down your throat like they started doing later. It played its part without being overbearing, I suppose you could say. It gave the Coils a proper "alien" look without just shoving you into Magitech Research Facility#29304080832. Yeah, they became more "tech" as you pushed deeper, but at the time that hadn't been done to death. Instead of making you roll your eyes, it would make you more cautious because the environment had you thinking some robot was going to pop out and slap you for your entire health bar at any second.

I keep hoping they'll do some kind of special event that allows players to experience the fall of Dalamud firsthand. The entire thing, White Raven fight included. Watching a video on YouTube or seeing people talk about it on the forum just does not convey the experience anything resembling properly. I'm sure just replaying it now wouldn't either, but it would at least give people some idea.

[ChrysOCE]

The first visit to kholusia came close but the final days completely failed to replicate the feeling and I think it’s because dalamud made the world dangerous, superbosses spawned, hamlet defence became harder, beloved NPC’s that had necessary functions in the world died and never came back, nothing in ShB or EW made me feel like “I” was in danger

Sidetrack: When you look back, nothing in EW made it feel like anyone of note was in danger, let alone the WoL, during the "Final Days". Who was notable that died? A couple of named people in Thavnair, that were introduced that expansion, which we had limited interaction with? Ultimately irrelevant NPCs? No scion died. No leader of any of the other factions. No notable NPCs (thinking 2nd in commands or higher ups in the GCs).

[Supersnow845]

I think part of it is the Coils aesthetic. It creates the impression you're A.) trapped; and B.) surrounded on all sides by things that want you dead. It's a hostile environment within a hostile environment. The way they incorporated Allagan tech into the scenery really just worked. It was ever-present, but you weren't having it jammed completely down your throat like they started doing later. It played its part without being overbearing, I suppose you could say. It gave the Coils a proper "alien" look without just shoving you into Magitech Research Facility#29304080832. Yeah, they became more "tech" as you pushed deeper, but at the time that hadn't been done to death. Instead of making you roll your eyes, it would make you more cautious because the environment had you thinking some robot was going to pop out and slap you for your entire health bar at any second.

I keep hoping they'll do some kind of special event that allows players to experience the fall of Dalamud firsthand. The entire thing, White Raven fight included. Watching a video on YouTube or seeing people talk about it on the forum just does not convey the experience anything resembling properly. I'm sure just replaying it now wouldn't either, but it would at least give people some idea.

I wish people could experience it as well

Hearing the hymn of dalamud in the background while endless thunder roars and monsters kills all the beloved NPC’s is something you have to play to believe, I would also love it to come back in a future rising event but I think the developers would rather just pretend like legacy never existed even if so much of ARR is based on what happened during the fall of dalamud

the literal end of 1.0 could feel dangerous cause there was always the chance the game never came back and that was the end of it, and i feel is a bit of a unfair way to compare the end of it to just another expansion of a game with many more years down the line, they can never hurt us the main character ever so no matter what we see we know we will win.

That’s not really what I meant when I said the fall of dalamud felt dangerous

[Musashidon]

Sidetrack: When you look back, nothing in EW made it feel like anyone of note was in danger, let alone the WoL.

while i get the other important characters not dying making the story a bit less dramatic, you the main character will never die ever or if you do it will be temporary as we are the main characters if we die the story stops immediately and doesnt continue so we know our character cant die or be hurt in any meaning full way or anything else. any tension in a dire situation is made by us ourselves, as we always know we will make it through perfectly fine.

Dalamud was just so perfect in how it affected the world it’s sad that 1.15-1.23b are just lumped in with the rest of trashy legacy and forgotten

the literal end of 1.0 could feel dangerous cause there was always the chance the game never came back and that was the end of it, and i feel is a bit of a unfair way to compare the end of it to just another expansion of a game with many more years down the line, they can never hurt us the main character ever so no matter what we see we know we will win.

[Mithron]

while i get the other important characters not dying making the story a bit less dramatic, you the main character will never die ever or if you do it will be temporary as we are the main characters if we die the story stops immediately and doesnt continue so we know our character cant die or be hurt in any meaning full way or anything else. any tension in a dire situation is made by us ourselves, as we always know we will make it through perfectly fine.

When Midgardsormr stripped us of our Blessing then we got framed for Sultana's death and had to be smuggled out of Eorzea into Ishgard while multiple Scions "died" behind us, that was pretty tense and I wasn't sure what was going to happen. I loved it. That's a large part of what made HW so good. But then everything since then has gotten progressively worse.

[Absimiliard]

When Midgardsormr stripped us of our Blessing then we got framed for Sultana's death and had to be smuggled out of Eorzea into Ishgard while multiple Scions "died" behind us, that was pretty tense and I wasn't sure what was going to happen. I loved it. That's a large part of what made HW so good. But then everything since then has gotten progressively worse.

This^

We knew full well the WoL wouldn't die, otherwise there'd be no game. What we didn't know was how many, if any, Scions would actually die. We also didn't know how long it would take the WoL to clear their name, what kind of political fallout there would be, etc. The eventual outcome was the loss of Minfilia, Y'shtola going "blind," and Thancred effectively being reduced to a discount Garlean. In other words, there were tangible consequences. We even found out later (in Heavensward) Y'sthola was burning her own life up to see. This was of course eventually swept under the rug as the angry cat lady became popular for some reason I still can't wrap my head around, but it was at least a thing for a while.

[ChrysOCE]

When Midgardsormr stripped us of our Blessing then we got framed for Sultana's death and had to be smuggled out of Eorzea into Ishgard while multiple Scions "died" behind us, that was pretty tense and I wasn't sure what was going to happen. I loved it. That's a large part of what made HW so good. But then everything since then has gotten progressively worse.

Basically this. Of course, the WoL will never die. If we wipe in a duty, we can just retry it. But you can still have a story where there is tension on the WoL and the world.

[Musashidon]

When Midgardsormr stripped us of our Blessing then we got framed for Sultana's death and had to be smuggled out of Eorzea into Ishgard while multiple Scions "died" behind us, that was pretty tense and I wasn't sure what was going to happen. I loved it. That's a large part of what made HW so good. But then everything since then has gotten progressively worse.

on the same coin though before we ever got the hw expansion as a way to keep us players from being locked out of uldah the devs just made every npc in the game go nah we aint turning our bro in so players could come and go in uldah not only that at the same time every npc was still viewable so like nanamo could be talked to despite being dead. course i understand why its done and dont think it make the story less dramatic or bad i just mean it all comes down to perspective as its not that the story is less tense or dramatic just some people like death more than others.

i can say i dont see killing off characters as making things tense its about atmosphere, tone and how you want to view a particular scene

[Absimiliard]

People seem to greatly underestimate just how important properly conveyed stakes are to a story like this one.