Healer Suggestions Megathread

[Shurrikhan]

Why would anyone even want a 123 combo so badly? It doesn't add any decisions. You're free to spread Broil across three hotbar buttons as is or, if on PC and quiet about it, to have it change animations, names, and icons each cast in a cycle of three possibilities. So why cost our kits two buttons just to spread the same non-decision (in terms of what attack to cast when fully able to cast) across three keys?

[Katish]

Why would anyone even want a 123 combo so badly? It doesn't add any decisions. You're free to spread Broil across three hotbar buttons as is or, if on PC and quiet about it, to have it change animations, names, and icons each cast in a cycle of three possibilities. So why cost our kits two buttons just to spread the same non-decision (in terms of what attack to cast when fully able to cast) across three keys?

They want it because it's not nothing, healers have been getting a whole lot of nothing in the past years and the treatment has been continuous. A 1-2-3 might not add much to the job (i.e it's basic), but where spell casting on healers is almost instantaneous and healing is for naught, IT is adding something rather than adding nothing. It has you doing more when an entire fight is concerned because 1-2-3 is a lot more active than 1 spam objectively speaking (You're moving your fingers in different spots rather than just keeping it to one). Of course, there's also room to how you implement the combo, such as: procks, conditionals, etc. but that is leading into de-homogenizing [which they should consider all together].

Their game design philosophy has healers not healing, and should they keep that design they need to redesign healers with that picture in mind as the healer dps concept has been proven in blue mage. Heals that get the job done but don't overstay, allowing access to healing when needed but also dps skills. Those dps skills aren't making blue mages heal less but adapt to how blue mage is played, and that philosophy should also be applied to healers as a whole.
As for making healing harder, I also agree they should do that on top of that but the truth is they aren't going to rework every single piece of content to support that. And I feel like a broken record at this point, even should they design with only the future content in that regard, the gear score would eventually make it back to the point where we aren't needed again (cause apparently healing is needed to be easy because idk-bad-healer mindset <--- that is their direction). There is no decision making in healing anymore so the argument in question, is if healing adding more healing contributes to absolutely nothing, then the playing needs to be addressed somewhere else in the job: dps, support skills, etc.

Curve down the healing skills, revision the healers entirely to support the system of them not continuously healing.

[AmiableApkallu]

Why would anyone even want a 123 combo so badly? It doesn't add any decisions.

Because if I can't get some modicum of decision-making complexity, I'll take mechanical "complexity" instead? ::shrug::

I mean, as a healer, I want to be making decisions. On the fly. In response to circumstances that aren't entirely predicable. In response to circumstances where someone making a mistake is actually salvagable and not "oops, only had 7/8 of bodies in the correct spot, so that's a wipe."

[Shurrikhan]

Yeah, but that "at least it's *something*" takes space. First, there's the space required for its button bloat. Then there's the space for change, itself, to which we've offered the devs this pitiful excuse from which to say "We did something; you all can't say anymore that you've been ignored."

(Moreover, there are the implications on the surrounding play; AoE auto-healing through filler (combo) spam is not going to helpful.)

None of which are good things, btw.

Like, we could as easily ask for a potential proc from any GCD action that allows for a nuke cast, stacking up to 2 times and it's be something. We could ask for another DoT and it'd be something. Why this fixation on *specifically* the most bloated way seen in XIV by which to add 'hitting other buttons' during downtime? Why *that* one?

[ForsakenRoe]

The issue I have with 123 combos is that they're just.. not a healer/caster thing. RDM's is their melee combo and SMN's being the Ifrit melee range 1-2. I don't feel like they're the solution, rather, I'd prefer to see things like GCDs with separate staggered CD timers (like Goring Blade/Sonic Break, but not 1min, think more like 15-20s), and 'X ready' procs like how RDM's rotation works off of Verstone Ready etc. 123 is very limiting, forcing you to commit for three GCDs in sequence to reap the full benefit, and while that's ok from a 'it makes complexity' perspective, it's not great for 'the role that is meant to react to unexpected problems arising during prog'. It's not 'dynamic', as it were, and given that we're trying to solve the problem of 'healers feel too static once the fight is solved', I'd argue that 123 does not solve the problem, just disguises it

[NobleWinter]

I'm not sure why 123 combos get so much derision. MCH used to have a 123 that was proc based with each step having a 50% chance to proc the next like Dancer currently and I loved that. I wouldn't mind having a combo like that at all on a healer. We could even have a combo that went 123 and then flowed in reverse 321 with 1 and 3 being more powerful skills that have a 50% chance to proc each other directly without the weaker number 2 step being needed like a simplified RDM combo. You can have 3 GCD damage spells that interact in a way that is interesting and requires far more attention than our current Glare spam. Even if we got a static 123 I would enjoy it more than the current single button fest. ANYTHING is better than falling asleep pressing Broil and I will scream that from the mountain tops.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm not sure why 123 combos get so much derision. MCH used to have a 123 that was proc based with each step having a 50% chance to proc the next like Dancer currently and I loved that.

Which was not a standard 1-2-3 combo, just as DNC is not. It was a series of bankable procced actions that interacted synergetically with three oGCDs (Reassemble, which you wanted to use on a procced Clean Shot, Quick Reload, and Reload).

Or take Monk, for instance. Its ST rotation is a 1-2-3 combo, giving it --especially with Perfect Balance-- a reason for each button to exist separately.

That's the difference. A standard 1-2-3 combo, especially among no competing actions for its niche, does not give each button to exist separately. It's like spending 3 buttons on Continuation. It might somehow feel good to someone because of that tactile flow, but the added buttons do absolutely nothing for the job's available decision-making.

Give each button a reason to exist, and I would agree with you. If not, I'll call it bloat because it is bloat.

(Yes, the Souleater, Royal Authority, and Solid Barrel combos each taking 3 buttons is also bloat. I would love to see them get something more akin to the old-MCH or MNK treatment, and would consolidation a sign of failure to making anything meaningful of their non-final actions, but they do not currently contribute to those jobs' decision-making nearly enough to be worth their button-costs.)

Even if we got a static 123 I would enjoy it more than the current single button fest.

We have that option right now: Stick Broil on 3 buttons and rotate accordingly. You have now unlocked the gameplay of any and all standard isolated 1-2-3 combos.

[NobleWinter]

Putting Broil on 3 different buttons has no ability to fail for hitting them in the wrong order. Yes, it's three different keys but I actually mess up the Ninja Combo quite often when I am interrupted from the rhythm after exiting melee range and forced to use Throwing Daggers or Ninjutsu. When I come back into melee range my first instinct is to start my combo over from the beginning. I have to really force myself to resume the combo from where I left off originally. That may not seem like much but it does take more effort than hitting Spinning Edge 15 times in a row on three different buttons with no opportunity to fail. I would like more to do than a standard 123 combo but it is more than Glare Spam. Procs would delight me and gauges to build, balance, and spend even more but hitting Broil on 3 different buttons with no chance of failure is not the same as a three step combo.

[NobleWinter]

It would feel better to me if we had a Standard 123 where each GCD had a different cast time. Let's say the first was a full 2.5 seconds cast, followed by a 1.5 second cast, followed by an instant cast. The way that would change our movement and weaving options would be more interesting to me than what we have now. Changing the combo so that each GCD had a different casting range would be interesting as well. For example step one and two grant stacks to be spent with your third skill. The third skill can only be used in melee range tho. If you are limited to five stacks then you would have a gameplay loop that allows you to be at a distance for 10 GCD's before you over cap. If both those systems were combined it actually sounds like something Sage should have had to me. Anyway there are ways to spice up even a standard 123 combo that I would personally enjoy.

[Shurrikhan]

Putting Broil on 3 different buttons has no ability to fail for hitting them in the wrong order. Yes, it's three different keys but I actually mess up the Ninja Combo quite often when I am interrupted from the rhythm after exiting melee range and forced to use Throwing Daggers or Ninjutsu. When I come back into melee range my first instinct is to start my combo over from the beginning. I have to really force myself to resume the combo from where I left off originally. That may not seem like much but it does take more effort than hitting Spinning Edge 15 times in a row on three different buttons with no opportunity to fail.

Fair enough; it's been too many years since I've done so for me to think about that.

But again, of all milestones, why stop there? (Especially when that design is mutually exclusive with a proc system, a shifting-priority system, or what have you because you've already used up those buttons on a rote cycle...)

I'm not against expansion; I'm probably one of the most ambitious enthusiasts for large reworks that'd flesh out healers' downtime kits. I just feel like it'd be a waste to spend what theoretical room for an adjustment we'd have... on something that's more bloat than nuance/complexity.

Mine is more a question of "Why THIS (over other options of similar levels of developer attention)?" or "Why be content with (merely) THIS?"