Dark Knight needs serious help

[Rithy255]

I'm a healer main, so my view is likely gonna be very skewed, but I disagree. I think other tanks should lose their insane sustain instead.

Tank Sustain just be reduced slightly. In casual Content healers shouldn't be treated like a Joke but a lot of that isn't tank design issues it's how little out going damage their is, It's not really a sustain issue other then Warriors Blood whetting ability which is really broken in AOE situations...


Warriors identity is the sustain tank, but shake it off in its current state is really bad, I would also nerf bloodwhettings sustain in single target and reduce its aoe effectiveness, but it should remain with the most Sustain.

I think Removing Paladins self healing from magic spells would be good, in turn put a little but of extra self healing somewhere else on PLD.

Gunbreaker is fine perfect example of a good amount of sustain, Dark Knight could actually use a little bit of sustain I think slow overtime sustain would suit dark knight the most, In trade of dark mind being nerfed but less Jank. In terms of actual tanking it's actually good but the main reason why people brought dark knight before was because of its damage.. other tanks are fine and more consistent at tanking, Despite that dark knight isn't bad defensively outside of sustain.

[PercibelTheren]

Tank Sustain just be reduced slightly. In casual Content healers shouldn't be treated like a Joke but a lot of that isn't tank design issues it's how little out going damage their is, It's not really a sustain issue other then Warriors Blood whetting ability which is really broken in AOE situations...


Warriors identity is the sustain tank, but shake it off in its current state is really bad, I would also nerf bloodwhettings sustain in single target and reduce its aoe effectiveness, but it should remain with the most Sustain.

I think Removing Paladins self healing from magic spells would be good, in turn put a little but of extra self healing somewhere else on PLD.

Gunbreaker is fine perfect example of a good amount of sustain, Dark Knight could actually use a little bit of sustain I think slow overtime sustain would suit dark knight the most, In trade of dark mind being nerfed but less Jank. In terms of actual tanking it's actually good but the main reason why people brought dark knight before was because of its damage.. other tanks are fine and more consistent at tanking, Despite that dark knight isn't bad defensively outside of sustain.

Why is WAR the sustain tank, though? Is it a Final Fantasy thing? Because it seems to me very much like the DnD Barbarian and those, while being extremely sturdy, don't really have a whole lot of healing. If anyone should be "the healing tank", it's Paladin.

[Absimiliard]

Why is WAR the sustain tank, though? Is it a Final Fantasy thing? Because it seems to me very much like the DnD Barbarian and those, while being extremely sturdy, don't really have a whole lot of healing. If anyone should be "the healing tank", it's Paladin.

Warriors in other titles were typically nothing but unga bunga. Their entire identity was AM SMASH GUD. Their survivability typically came from an obscenely high HP pool and the ability to wear heavy armor, although they did have a propensity for becoming ludicrously durable if you gave them a blood (drain) blade. FFXIV's WAR was mostly true to its roots in ARR (albeit with a bit of berserker splashed in), but it was apparent by the end of that era it just wasn't working out like they'd hoped. Even back then, though, WAR still had access to some heals. Heck, Bloodbath used to be tied to marauder. Only way for other jobs to get it was as a cross-class skill, so access was limited.

[Rithy255]

Why is WAR the sustain tank, though? Is it a Final Fantasy thing? Because it seems to me very much like the DnD Barbarian and those, while being extremely sturdy, don't really have a whole lot of healing. If anyone should be "the healing tank", it's Paladin.

I mean that's their ff14 identity at, if we wanted to do pure identity from past final fantasy games then dark knight would be a DPS.

Way I see it is Paladin is more of a team player with back up support/healing, Not a tank that's selfish and sustains itself like a warrior, hence why i think healing from your magic burst and holy spirit should be removed for something else (such as a utility healing skill similar to gunbreakers aurora or warriors equilibrium, that could obviously target someone on a 60 second CD). I feel like Paladin in general could use more improvements to it's utility as it's a big part of why i liked the job in the first place... issue is a lot of ur utility is situational or bad. Paladin is also meant to be more about High defensive skills as the shield tank.

The Way I see it is that warrior is meant to be about self sustaining, I do agree it's sustain is way too much in current content but removing what Warrior players like about warrior isn't really a great move. I think we just need to tone down warriors sustain in raiding content, in dungeon content it's super busted and shouldn't make healers useless in aoe situations, I'd also likely want to see some slight nerfs to warriors general mitigation, or a return to warrior having to choose their short CD to Sustain or Mitigate damage like it used to in shadowbringers

[Oizen]

Not a tank that's selfish and sustains itself like a warrior

Have you actually read Nascent or Shake it off though?
WAR is far from selfish, its team mitigations far outpace what the other tanks can do, with the only one coming close being PLD with both wings and Veil, but at the cost of being clunkier to use.
If any tank is the selfish tank its DRK or GNB. Currently bringing a good WAR is like having a high damage tank who's also acting as a 3rd healer for free.

[Shurrikhan]

Have you actually read Nascent or Shake it off though?
WAR is far from selfish, its team mitigations far outpace what the other tanks can do, with the only one coming close being PLD with both wings and Veil, but at the cost of being clunkier to use.
If any tank is the selfish tank its DRK or GNB. Currently bringing a good WAR is like having a high damage tank who's also acting as a 3rd healer for free.

Well, DRK > PLD. Tell a modern-XIV-raider PLD to Clemency someone, sacrificing a GCD, and they'll likely have a conniption. GNB at least has a free ally-targetable heal beyond their on-demand, opposite WAR's just absurd amount of total sustain grantable even to non-tanks via SiO and NF.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Well, DRK > PLD. Tell a modern-XIV-raider PLD to Clemency someone, sacrificing a GCD, and they'll likely have a conniption. GNB at least has a free ally-targetable heal beyond their on-demand, opposite WAR's just absurd amount of total sustain grantable even to non-tanks via SiO and NF.

PLD Intervention has the same total heal potency as a regen as Clemency. Unless a fight is so tightly strapped that they need to use all the oath gauge on tanks only, they can use Intervention to heal people, doubly so if they mitigate something with it.

Clemency is only the backup when shit hits the fan.

[Shurrikhan]

PLD Intervention has the same total heal potency as a regen as Clemency. Unless a fight is so tightly strapped that they need to use all the oath gauge on tanks only, they can use Intervention to heal people, doubly so if they mitigate something with it.

Clemency is only the backup when shit hits the fan.

There's not much value in separating sustain into mitigation and healing in that fashion, though. Yes, Intervention can heal for as much as Clemency, but as a HoT. Per a mere 15s, TBN can also shield for more than that. Why fuss over the one and not the other if the values are similar (atop the shield being more likely to prevent a death on a low-HP ally than the % miti + HoT?

I have to agree with Lyth here. There's not inherently any more a problem with tank healing than with tank mitigation; the issue is simply that a lot of the newest healing takes virtually no consideration to optimize, or outright cannot be optimized in itself (only by healers not wasting oGCDs just before Req, etc.). But were that a barrier one didn't need to optimize the timing of, the issue would be the same. They're both sustain and, in that example, both relatively skill-less / "braindead".

[Oizen]

Well, DRK > PLD. Tell a modern-XIV-raider PLD to Clemency someone, sacrificing a GCD, and they'll likely have a conniption. GNB at least has a free ally-targetable heal beyond their on-demand, opposite WAR's just absurd amount of total sustain grantable even to non-tanks via SiO and NF.

I feel like this is more of a "Paladin is bad" problem rather than it being selfish.
Intervention, Cover, Clemency, Wings, and Veil exist. Cover and Clemency and never optimal, but they're still things you CAN do.

DRK just has the standard short mit and raidwide in comparison, the thing that every tank has by default. It just so happens that in practice all of PLD's tools come a steep cost and are clunky to use.

[Rithy255]

Have you actually read Nascent or Shake it off though?
WAR is far from selfish, its team mitigations far outpace what the other tanks can do, with the only one coming close being PLD with both wings and Veil, but at the cost of being clunkier to use.
If any tank is the selfish tank its DRK or GNB. Currently bringing a good WAR is like having a high damage tank who's also acting as a 3rd healer for free.

Maybe read my first comment that they replied to, I disagree with shake it off in its current state.
The Job Should be more selfish, I'd also nerf nascent flash quite a bit personally.

It feels like you mistook my point being is that I want Paladin to lean into a more utility tank with supportive options
While warrior should be about Self healing and sustain, not grouped sustain like it currently is. It needs to keep some utility clearly to be on par with other tanks but it's likely got the best team healing and group healing which shouldn't be apart of Warrior.