Yoshi P in a nutshell

[Deo14]

With respect, this seems to have swept past the intent of my initial comment. I said there was a history of Yoshi-P making changes according to feedback, and insinuated that that history shouldn't be ignored. If the magnitude of that history isn't to someone's liking, sure, say as much, weigh in. Just don't ignore it.

Some people do latch on these few cases as a tick. That's more about some people in the community, who try to argue with giving those few examples as some foolproof argument.

I'm definitely one of those people who would like major changes to the glam system such as the ones you listed. But I also understand when we don't get them, perhaps because I've worked in game dev myself? The way Yoshi-P talks about certain desired changes gives me the impression that the 2.0 implementation made a lot of understandably hasty choices that would at this point be costly to adjust. And as the game's producer, it's his job to min-max all of the possible work that could be done and decide which work is most worth the limited bandwidth the team has, which will necessarily take into account how much work each task takes and how much reward it's expected to bring. The higher the cost of making a change, the lower it's ratio of juice-per-squeeze. And sometimes that means that features I'd love get left on the cutting room floor.

For me, it's seems questionable that in this expansion they've been actively trying to make this game a single player, instead of focusing on this stuff that people do want. I get that attracting new players is priority, but it would be nice if veterans got a little bit more than just scraps.

I don't see the fact that there are problems as evidence that the devs aren't listening; rather, it generally highlights their priorities, as well as problems that are genuinely difficult to solve. In this case, it might suggest that these issues aren't seen as a meaningful enough problem to enough of the player base to be worth the cost of adjusting them. Maybe there are enough players that like the way things are that it complicates things. It's hard to say. But I'd be quite surprised to learn the devs are acting in opposition to what they believe the bulk of their players want, as that would be sabotaging their own project and careers.

That I would understand. But in case of healers, they got told to "just play ultimates". I get that this is hard thing to fix, but they still haven't done anything meaningful to address that. In case of Kaiten, that's relatively easy thing to fix, just revert to the state that people were happy with. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the whole SAM 6.1 clown fiesta, but here's my thread if want it in more detail. Long story short, all reasons they gave us make no sense if you dig just a few centimeters under a surface. They specifically asked for feedback about it, which we did provide, and then they ghosted us. You can check DPS forums, even after 1.5 year, people are still not happy about it. So if they don't care about this, how can you expect them to care about anything else?

[Velaethia]

Yoshi P isn't perfect but still made a great game.

I massively disagree with his stance on pet classes.

Also wish classes could have build-gameplay diversity outside of a couple having rng.

[Arzalis]

Oh, the struct modification is the easy part. What I wouldn't trust an intern to do is appropriately manage how the data in that struct is going to be efficiently stored in the database, nor manage how the existing database data will be ported over to the new structure (I feel like it's very safe to assume that CBU3 is using old-school servers, as opposed to anything in the cloud). And I'd be surprised if that same programming intern had the knowledge of the programs the artists do their texturing in to convert clothing that was initially implemented to only have a single dye channel to having two dye channels. This is a non-trivial undertaking across multiple skillsets.

While I wouldn't presume to know all the details of their codebase, I can guess the implementation on the texture/material side. I think they already map everything into channels (why we get so many color variations of armor; they aren't making new textures for those). They'll just flag a previously non-dyeable channel with a property that says "this dyes with dye channel 2." They won't need to do any actual new texture work for this.

Why would they need to create a new storage method? They already have one. Migrating data from the old structure to the new one is definitely a concern, but that's more of a devops thing. They're going to be making tons of changes for the expansion anyway no doubt and it'll all be handled at maintenance before launch.

You're making this sound more complicated than it is to try to prove your point, I think. Pretty much all of this is exactly the kind of thing I'd expect to be assigned to an intern or a junior programmer. Minus the actual implementation at launch.

[Miracle_Diva]

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It took them 10 years to add visible buff timers on group buffs in party list.

[MonsutaMan]

She aint Japanese, so this looks about right.

[Absimiliard]

She aint Japanese, so this looks about right.

Don't worry. He's not listening to the Japanese players either.
Nobody wins this one.

[LilimoLimomo]

For me, it's seems questionable that in this expansion they've been actively trying to make this game a single player, instead of focusing on this stuff that people do want. I get that attracting new players is priority, but it would be nice if veterans got a little bit more than just scraps.

But in case of healers, they got told to "just play ultimates". I get that this is hard thing to fix, but they still haven't done anything meaningful to address that. In case of Kaiten, that's relatively easy thing to fix, just revert to the state that people were happy with. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the whole SAM 6.1 clown fiesta, but here's my thread if want it in more detail. Long story short, all reasons they gave us make no sense if you dig just a few centimeters under a surface. They specifically asked for feedback about it, which we did provide, and then they ghosted us. You can check DPS forums, even after 1.5 year, people are still not happy about it. So if they don't care about this, how can you expect them to care about anything else?

Yeah, I get it. From a business standpoint, trying to bring in new blood and appeal to the casual player base (that is less concerned about the ins-and-outs of job balance) is where a significant amount of development effort should be focused, to keep the game profitable and hopefully to expand the game's budget...but hardcore players deserve attention as well. Your frustration is valid.

Did healers really get told to just play Ultimates? If you've got the source for this handy I'd love to see it, as that isn't just a terrible suggestion, but terrible PR as well.

While I'm familiar with how dull healing is right now, I'm less familiar with the Kaiten stuff. Seems really suck that they'd ask for feedback and then not follow-up. It makes me wonder if perhaps they're mainly taking Japanese feedback or something? I can't say, but I'll read the thread you provided, maybe that information is already in there.

So if they don't care about this, how can you expect them to care about anything else?

Two things:

• We know that the developers don't have the bandwidth to implement everyone's feedback; because of this, a great deal of feedback they receive will never be implemented.

• FF14 is a product that the devs want to endure for another 10 years; for the devs to not care about any player issues wouldn't just mean not caring about their players, but not caring about their own livelihood. That seems incredibly unlikely.

Both of those together suggest to me that even if for whatever reason the devs aren't catering to Kaiten feedback, there's no reason to think they won't cater to any feedback.

I know that doesn't help with the Kaiten thing, which sounds like a bummer.

[LilimoLimomo]

Why would they need to create a new storage method? They already have one. Migrating data from the old structure to the new one is definitely a concern, but that's more of a devops thing.

Perhaps I'm not wording this correctly, but I'm saying what you're saying: that for this change to be performant and cost-efficient and be tested at a AAA scale, there's some of this that just can't be done with only interns. An intern can do some of the busywork here, but they can't do the devops side. I'll trust you on the art side as I'm less familiar with modern-day art pipelines.

[Deo14]

Did healers really get told to just play Ultimates? If you've got the source for this handy I'd love to see it, as that isn't just a terrible suggestion, but terrible PR as well.

There was a huge thread about it. Yoshi obviously said it in Japanese, so community paraphrased it in slightly more mean sounding way, but yes, in LL68, he basically said that first EW raid tier is easier than last tier of ShB, so if you want more challenging content as a healer, then you should try ultimate. That post has a timestamp for that, if you want to hear exact (translated) wording.

While I'm familiar with how dull healing is right now, I'm less familiar with the Kaiten stuff. Seems really suck that they'd ask for feedback and then not follow-up. It makes me wonder if perhaps they're mainly taking Japanese feedback or something? I can't say, but I'll read the thread you provided, maybe that information is already in there.

There should be enough info in my thread, it's long reading, but it should hopefully give you a decent picture of the situation.

As for JP feedback, it's pain in the ass to try and get in touch with them. DeepL or other decent translators have no free browser plugin to translate whole page, and then there's the whole 2ch stuff. But there's one part in my thread regarding the volume of JP feedback on the matter:

Back in july 2022 (6 months after rework) I counted pages on JP's SAM megathread (they use chaotic megathreads for some reason). At the time, thread had 325 pages worth of discussion. Meanwhile, from SAM's release in SB (June 2017) to 6.1, there was just 170 pages. That means 170 pages in 4.5 years vs 155 pages in just half a year after 6.1 release. I think it's safe to say that even JP community wasn't excited about rework.

Both of those together suggest to me that even if for whatever reason the devs aren't catering to Kaiten feedback, there's no reason to think they won't cater to any feedback.

You'll have to get a look into the Kaiten situation to decide for yourself whether you think it's okay that such a relatively simple thing to fix, with such a negative impact on players, is justified.

Fact is that SAM is just 1 job out of 19, yet the amount of uproar it caused was, and still is, pretty significant. When it was recent, a lot of people joined the forums for the first time just to share their displeasure with it, and it definitely felt like a community started to have much more negative outlook on potential future reworks.

[OdinelStarrei]

Fact is that SAM is just 1 job out of 19, yet the amount of uproar it caused was, and still is, pretty significant. When it was recent, a lot of people joined the forums for the first time just to share their displeasure with it, and it definitely felt like a community started to have much more negative outlook on potential future reworks.

Going to have to collaborate on this. This is only from my perspective, but job reworking and design in general has caused some kind of global negativity lens to be placed on almost the entire game for me. As a gameplay focused player, I interact with the game through my job, primarily. If my job or role is not in a good or fun/engaging state, I'm not gonna have a good time, honestly. If I cannot express myself through gameplay, I don't have as much fun. Kaiten getting removed is just another domino in the line of job adjustments that were not designed for the original players of that job.

But when we started getting the dumbest of reasons of WHY Kaiten got removed, WHY tanks/healers are the way there are, it started making people really, really angry. Remember when the DRKs and MCHs were losing their minds over Blood Weapon/Hypercharge not being on the stack system for 2 years, even though it was implemented just fine on similar skills? And Yoshi-P said, lmao, we've received no feedback on that issue? Oh man, I remember seeing red.

Stuff like that in isolation really doesn't matter in the grand scope, but it's apocalyptic to a specific type of dedicated player. The kind who would show up in a SAM cosplay with a sign that says Give Back Kaiten, for example.

At some point, it really started to seem like the Job Design team was...almost deliberately screwing over long time mains of some jobs. Was that intended? Probably not. But it's easier to attribute deliberate malice in the name of accessibility than outright incompetence or total ignorance of the discontent.