For those who main/semi-main a DPS (e.g. DNC, RDM) but like Healers...

[Shurrikhan]

It does seem like it needs to be pointed out that this place does NOT represent as wide a swath of views as the people here who all seem to agree with one another (hence echo chamber) suggest it does.

I also disagree with the notion that "You're more inclined to be on the more serious side of community if you visit this forum"; a lot of people believe this official forum (as a whole and the role sections) are toxic. The serious discussions/posters are on r/ffxivdiscussion, and they routinely mock this place. So I don't think your argument holds at all.

There's a difference between representing a wide swath of interests and a wide swath of ideas.

Put 10,000 people chosen randomly from throughout the world and put them on the same project or in the same kind of activity for 5+ years.

They will at first have a wide swath of interests and a wide swath of ideas.

Thereafter, for a time, the numbers of ideas on the project or activity at hand will grow.

After that, though, the number of ideas will shrink, because the worse ones will have already been parsed out.

What you continually assume to be differences in interest by which to dismiss the ideas developed on the OF (unless, of course, they're yours or in agreement with yours) may very well simply be a result of the participants being in closer, more consistent, multiple-thread-spanning contact with one another, which allows for far more detailed parsing of ideas.

There's a reason you see productive discourse on rDPS, aDPS, "taxation" and the like here, while such discourse is often stymied on r/xivdiscussion and often isn't even worth referring to on r/ffxiv. There's a reason why most concrete suggestions on that main or subreddit are usually copy-pasted from here, from a longform suggestion video by an abnormally involved gameplay-/theory-crafter, or are a cobble of OF ideas. There's simply more prolonged exposure and discussion here. People get to know each other, and threads see far more cross-over.

That deeper discussion pares away less functional ideas does not make its participants all suddenly skewed in their interests.

So obviously, healers are split into casuals which mostly reside in mainsub, and more hardcore people who reside in here or places like r/ffxivdiscussion. Both views are valid, however, we have 4 healers, and all 4 of them are made to suit the casuals. Why can't we have current WHM and current SGE, and then more interesting AST and SCH?

Honestly? Because why sacrifice any of them?

No, seriously. Unless we can actually find some significant group of people who actually like spending 80+% of their GCDs on a single button, that's not an aspect worth maintaining -- on any healer. And that can be changed with very, very little overflow (affecting other aspects of that job's gameplay, capacities, and, say, their skill / effort-to-output curve*).

* This refers to the % of maximal performance possible under a particular product of forms of [variably weighted] optimization and execution of each. Generally, you want that to output to feel fairly logarithmic compared to effort, increasingly but smoothly decreasing in its returns, such that, say, perfecting Transpose lines is never going to overtake the significance of more core optimizations like maximizing relative uptime, good AF/UI cycling, etc.

That doesn't mean they should suddenly get complex rotations or, gods forbid, cumulatively punishing actions (like combos, where each GCD spent towards them increases the punishment of fat-fingering / not completing said combo), nor does it mean damage should be so overwhelming that GCD heals suddenly outnumber the GCDs of an otherwise unchanged filler-attack-spam. Both could carry excessive overall change that could then have a net negative impact, and should therefore be treated with caution and would lack the warrant for that extent of change.

But it does mean that there are one or more aspects whose changes would improve the job overall for nearly all players. And no job should be disallowed from seeing those fine, unobtrusive improvements by being left precisely as is.

And got 3 Likes for the effort, proving what I always say; bashing Ren is how people here give out/get likes, not good or bad posts. The fact Deo got likes for saying what I say all the time that I get told is a terrible idea and browbeaten over kind of proves that.

The inclusion of the <sacrifice any chance of even minutely improving 1-2 jobs to appease whatever tiny portion of people prefer the current state of Broil-spam, little to no GCD healing, lack of meaningful support, etc.> idea is the only reason I can't like that post, despite it making a ton of sense up until that point. Perhaps most looked at the remaining 90% of the post and liked it accordingly?

I doesn't matter who speaks it. I didn't care for it any more when Misshapen Chair first brought it up, before you co-opted it. I'm not going to care any more for telling 1-2 jobs to f off and be the sacrificial lamb now.