For those who main/semi-main a DPS (e.g. DNC, RDM) but like Healers...

[ty_taurus]

I mean... it's kinda both. It's always both. A kit can't interact with content that doesn't have any space for it. An encounter can't play on kit that isn't there.

Sorry, I meant more in the sense of reworking the role system and trying to redesign how certain jobs function to fit this new role concept. Adding methods to actually use utility is important in conjunction with ensuring the content created actually asks for it, absolutely.

Honestly, I don't consider that as "support" (and, like you, certainly not "utility"), so much as just "My dps... through you all (meaning that I can bring more when at lower ilvl than my team but less when at higher ilvl than my team, compared to playing a more direct contributor)."

I think of it kind of like the difference between physical and magical. There's no functional difference between the two, but from the player's perspective, some people like jobs that use magic while others like jobs that are physical. Then you also have some players who might appreciate jobs that have damage that come from buffs, and that aligns with players interested in support as a whole. I'd still say it's worth recognizing when talking about trying to reinforce support play, but utility is the more important factor in establishing solid support gameplay, I agree.

To me it's far from 'supportive', since you can't generally extract any meaningful savings in damage or sustain resources from having used the likes of Magic Barrier, Embolden just shuffles your own would-be damage to others (and then back again, on fflogs), leaving it only with the value of Verraise relative to Summoner or Healers' access to that skill. (Arguably, WHM's Thin Air beats it out of the water even then.)

I'd say you can get meaningful value out of Magick Barrier in savage. There are small moments at certain mechanics that do have tight healing windows that can sometimes get tricky, so being able to support them at those times does feel helpful, which is why I find Minne to be much nicer than Improvisation, for example. But the point still stands that there isn't a whole lot of utility to get out of Red Mage most of the time. Instant raise can also contribute to that, but it's situational. One of the great things about Expedient is that even though it functions to increase your group's margin of error, you always use it for certain mechanics. Even in casual content where the stakes aren't high, it still feels great to use as utility because it's proactive, not reactive. Reactive utility requires someone mess up first in order for it to be used. That can be said to some degree about sustain, but not about raise. Not that raise isn't valuable, but the value it offers isn't always felt even when it's still there.

[Shurrikhan]

Note that [changing one role into an altered and narrow version thereof that only fits a small fraction of the role's jobs] is what people want to do with Healers.

Unless you're referring to the far rarer and extreme positions of those who want to remove all GCD healing instead of at all trying to make them more relevant again...

...It's not the same. It's really not.

Having additional healing-downtime options, reducing the portion of CPM (and possibly portion of GCDs) spent on our filler attack, and better spreading out its CPM... is not alike to, say, changing a MCH into a Support instead of a DPS.

That change in MCH's role necessitates a change in where one's output comes from (shifting it from self to others). Allowing healers more buttons to press in the time they already cannot heal does not do that; the available healing was already capped.

Nor would, say, adding more Card-related GCD options to AST suddenly force WHM, SGE, and SCH, too, to take on GCD buffs by nature of simply being in the same role as AST; even Ty's requested parameters for Healers as a role (no more than 30% of CPM spent on a single action, 10+ actions required to reach 80% of total CPM, and able to meet healing requirements) were as about broad as possible short of "should be labelled Healer" and were utterly uncontroversial to anyone playing XIV with a button count greater than that of an SNES controller.

Perhaps it's that Reddit is less tolerant of different views than here, but I see posts there with people raging on healers and posts where people praise them, and the comments come from both sides. Here, it's me and...that's it.

Been reading through threads searchable from "healer" or "healer gameplay" for the last couple hours (over a dozen threads so far scanned in full, many more skimmed) and gone through the replies therein... all to find the most liked comments (after those with purely direct answers to the OP's questions), sadly, centered on stuff like "What healing lol?" "Thought ends as soon as you've solved the fight, leaving you with only very barebone execution", "Expect to be bored after prog", "Green DPS", "Gutted gameplay", and "Your reward for getting good is to be less of a healer... which you could also do by just switching to WAR in the first place", etc...

I'm not seeing any less a portion of negativity there than here. There's a far larger portion that just forms no appraisal and will solely answer the OP's question, but the moment evaluations comes up... they've actually been even more negative, on average, than these forums.

___________________

I'd say you can get meaningful value out of Magick Barrier in savage.

How often, though, does it actually save long-term resource (rDPS) by avoiding death in a situation where no one else could make that difference or by sparing a healer GCD, though? It feels like it's rarely if ever significant enough to do so.

Tangent: This actually feels like a good reason for AoEs to become weaker smart heals (e.g., a 300p smart-heal instead of a 400p basic heal), such that non-AoE mitigation can actually make a positive difference, and for more mitigation methods to become partially split among nearby allies (raising their maximal individual mitigation without improving their total mitigation, thereby providing more utility and agency).

[Renathras]

WARNING: Long thread because of quotes. See: TL;DR if you want and then can skim back up through the comments to see if you agree or not.

...

Actually made a thread (more general) to see kind of what people on the main sub think of the roles in a general sense: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...which_is_your/

Likes aren't what I'm looking for here, it's comments people actually wrote out. Something you'll find if you read the healer specific ones are...varied.

"I've always loved healing, no matter what game, I always try healer first and generally stick to it. I always hate worrying about if my dps is high enough, or if I'm doing the right rotation."
Perhaps it's my interpretation, but this SOUNDS like a person saying they don't like involved DPS rotations as they worry about not doing them right, but they enjoy healing instead.

"...and I just don't care about big numbers or DPS contests for there to be a draw there"
This was a person saying they like healer and find tank too stressful and aren't drawn to DPS. I don't think it's a bridge too far to assume they like healers not having involved damage rotations.

Next healer didn't really comment on the playstyle, just that they like being able to hard carry teams in DF. Certainly doesn't seem like someone who dislikes current healer design, at least not in the content they run.

"Healing. In high-end pugging it’s about reading the other healer (and everyone else) and figuring out how to order your ogcds correctly to prevent overheating. In normals it gets exciting if people start dying."
This one is the first one I think somewhat matches what you guys are saying...but not QUITE. This person didn't say they dislike healing at present, they say they like it in high end pugging and making an oGCD plan, and they find normal exciting when people are messing up. While they don't say they want more damage abilities or are bored, I think it's reasonable that they get bored in normals if people aren't dying (per their last comment), though that's inference on my part.

"healer for me, it just clicks"
Doesn't really comment either way, but this person doesn't SOUND like they dislike current healing.

"I like healing and hate it all at the same time. Astro is my go to healer it’s busy and I enjoy that as the other healers feel boring to me"
This is the first comment that's more or less in agreement with here unambiguously. Though they don't say they want more damage abilities per se, they also say the other healers are boring except for AST, which they find busy enough to enjoy. Their words "I enjoy that". Not asking for more damage buttons either, but some of you have suggested AST get more buff stuff to juggle instead, and agrees with you guys that the other three are boring. So this is the first comment that unambiguously agrees with this forum here.

The next comment is from a person who identified themselves as a DPSer: "Healing's alright, the fast queues are fantastic but lack of DPS rotation gets boring after awhile. My 2 key is gonna wear out on my MMO mouse at this rate."
This comment SORTA agrees with you guys here, if we ignore the first two words of "Healing's alright". But it agrees with you guys on the lack of DPS rotation getting boring after awhile. But it's also not from a healer main. (Not making any "real healer" comment here, I'm just pointing out it isn't from a person who identifies as a healer but I felt it was worth adding since it DOES unabiguously agree with here as well, so we can keep the tally fair.)

"Magic DPS, followed by Healers
I just wanna be a Wizard :V"
Here for completion, but I don't think we can really glean anything from it other than this person doesn't seem to dislike current healers. But also "I just wanna be a Wizard" isn't really something we can work with. XD

"Healing as Astro is a close second though because I like managing the cards, occasionally saving the day, and their LB3 is fañcy"
Another DPS main, but seems to really like AST. Not seeing anything about it being boring or bland or not having enough damage buttons.

"I main Black Mage, but my favorite role is actually healer. I enjoy playing all the healers. I think it's the most engaging role to play in duty finder. Saving a party from what seemed like a certain wipe feels very good.
What I'd like changed is an increased emphasis on healing. Most of your actions as a healer are not healing, they're your one DPS button."
This is more or less the exact opposite view of this forum and reflects what I've asked for a lot of times - more emphasis on healing, less on damage dealing. This person might even be the kind who would like that "GCD heals nourish the Blood Lily" idea.

"If I Tank, I get a shitty healer who's spamming LV1 base spells in LV90 Roulette at 90% HP. If Idecide to play Healer, I'm getting a Tank who doesn't know what Migitations are.
Despite all that, I enjoy Tanking/Healing the most, Melee DPS is the worst for me."
Here for completeness, but again doesn't really help us.

"Healers, i love fast paced raiding stuff and a good healer always gives you the comfort to pull or dps mindlessly without worrying about dying."
Not super helpful either...but this person seems not to dislike healers, either.

"Healer. I would say it is the only job that does something beyond either standing still or doing the exactly one good rotation all DPS classes are cursed with… but that is a lie, the dev team had to add boring and predictable fight-starting room-wides to even force out some healing.
Still, it has its moments, usually in alliance raids where tons of players ---- up and you have to salvage the entire situation. Sometimes it happens in 8-player and 4-player content as well.
But, overall, mostly because it is the least tunnel-visioned jobs, more so than tank. It is also the role where people learn to move the party list to a spot they actually see instead of chugging it in the corner somewhere. Suddenly, you have to care about all the faceless bozos running around you."
Person seems not to like DPS rotations, and is complaining about fight design not healer design. This person doesn't seem to dislike current healer design nor to be asking for more DPS buttons.

"I prefer tanking.
Healing causes me severe stress. I've literally found my hands trembling after a difficult encounter. I only heal during really easy encounters as a result."
Again added for completion, but not really something we can work with other than this person dislikes healing hard content. Though they certainly DON'T seem to be saying healing is boring/braindead/easy/needs more to do to keep awake like this forum does.

"It used to be healer but due to shinanigans in my static I volunteered to go DPS this expansion and my stress has gone way down and I'm enjoying raids again.
I think I was burnt out on healing and didn't realize it. I play SMN now and like to use my utility abilities but I can never tell if I'm being helpful which now bothers me lol."
For completeness, but again doesn't really help us other than they found healing stressful (so probably not braindead) and we don't know the nature of the mentioned "shinanigans", so we can't really do anything with this one other than that this person probably doesn't think healers are braindead.

DPS main again "I prefer dps because interesting rotation + not any real responsibility in casual content, but i also love playing healer for fast queues and alliance raids can be a lot of fun when everyone is dead as a healer lol
and white mage is my go-to brain dead glare-bot instant queue job"
...but this one doesn't seem to hate healers, and seems to like WHM specifically when they do casual content. Does think it's brain dead, but seems to see that as a positive.

"Healer. Because everyone's at my mercy."
The post goes on in that vein, so isn't super helpful to us, but again, a person that doesn't seem to hate current healer design.

"healer is by far my favorite. some people think having 3 dps buttons are "boring" but i like not having combos to deal with to do my job correctly. and the constant "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING" to the dps is always a fun time. my least favorite is tank. i don't like any of them because of super strict rotations."
Do I...need to mention that this person agrees with me? This is the kind of person I mean when I say WHM should stay the same for people who like current healer designs and you guys here are like "People? Who? You just mean you, right?" As I always say, "No, it's not just me". Here's an example of a person who isn't me saying the same thing.

"Healer
1. Watching bars fill up is more satisfying to me than watching bars empty.
2. Many-Buttons difficulty is not enjoyable to me, nor is Scheduling-Every-Click-a-year-in-advance
3. I don't have a competitive bone in my body.
4. I enjoy being the guy who has an eye on everything.
What would I like changed? In an ideal world, more healing, less DPSing. But that's not what the game is or ever will be, so I'm good as is."
Do I need to point out this one agrees with me? Even more than that, this person is literally asking for less DPSing, not more. "Many-Buttions difficulty is not enjoyable to me, nor is Scheduling-Every-Click-a-year-in-advance". Does that sound more like you guys and the prevailing opinion on this forum, or more like mine? Pretty sure we can chalk this one up into also being at odds with the forum here.

"Usually healer. I enjoy all three equally, but a bad healer is hard to carry for. If a tank or the dps are bad the game just becomes slower and not impossible (usually). A bad healer is hard to overcome and usually leads to duty failure. If I heal I can at least ensure the healer is good (or in the case of an 8 or 24 man Duty, at least half the healers are good)."
Doesn't really say either way, but here for completeness. Again, doesn't seem to hate current healer implementation.

"I prefer support type classes in all games so I tend to gravitate to healer roles the most. My second would be class cannon mage types.
I enjoy being able to analyze a fight/encounter with a little less stress on my own “rotations”. I personally don’t find myself in a panic when keeping others alive but it’s probably because I tend to heal primarily in every game. This also allows me to make calls during a fight or encounter to pull some stress off other jobs who can focus more attention to their performance. Also as a healer you can carry a less experienced team through trouble FAR more than if you were another role.
Currently in FFXIV I would like healers to actually need to do more healing outside of first time runs/brand new content. Currently most content boils down to 2 DPS buttons and the occasional OGCD press. I wish healing was more about weaving DPS into your healing vs weaving a heal into your DPS button spam.
Edit: I also enjoy situations where you can hardcore pocket heal a player allowing them to really pump those DPS numbers."
Again, this person seems to agree with me. Don't like stressing about their own rotation, enjoys supporting others, even outright claims to enjoy what Semi always calls "being a heal bitch" and that she hates. Also another vote for more healing, and weaving damage into their healing rotation instead of weaving heals between damage. Which means this person sounds like they'd also like the WHM GCD heals generate Misery, as that would be a model that encourages weaving occasional damage (Misery) in between their healing.

"Healer.
If you disrespect me, you die. Your life is in my hands. RESPEEKT MY AUTHORITALL"
Yeah...not really useful again.

"Green DPS (ie Healer).
I love being able to keep everybody alive while simultaneously keeping up with the actual DPS."
While saying "Green DPS", sounds like this person actually enjoys it.

"My favourite role is DPS, because it's the only role in this game. In other games I'd play a healer, but that role doesn't exist in this game. We only have DPS, DPS with a bit of healing, and DPS with a 1 button rotation."
Here's a post that agrees unambiguously with this forum! It's...also not being upvoted. So take that for what you will.

"love hate relationship with healer. fun to prog and do whacky pugs on, boring as shit in ordinary reclears"
Second to bottom comment as of right now, last comment on healers (the very last comment below it is about DPS), and...agrees with this forum. Like this is straight up what the majority here believes, that healers can be fun in prog but are boring as <poopie> in reclears.

.

TL;DR:

I'm not posting all these to start a tally/contest of which is more popular. This is WAY too few answers/responses to cite as somehow representative of the whole community of the playerbase or anything like that, and wasn't a poll, just a general question about how people like the roles and which.

But what I would like to draw your attention to is that there are other people there (unlike here) that agree with me, and that the position here that is so prominent is actually the minority position there. It IS just one thread, so I'm not saying that's true of the whole forum, but what I'm specifically trying to draw your attention to is that my view is not unique to me, there are others that hold it. And that unlike here, on Reddit, they're given equal say. Notice none of the posts there have been downvoted to the point of being hidden (one was deleted but I think it was someone accusing someone else of using a DPS meter). They all seem to be voicing their positions and are being tolerated, not briggaded or dogpiled.

But, the position prevalent here is still present there. It's not disallowed, it's not being downvoted, it's not being mocked. That isn't a reverse mirror of this echo chamber that's just swinging too far to the other side. It allows both to coexist, and they both seem to be represented by multiple people on all sides...unlike here.

And look at all those different opinions!

There are people that seem to love current healers, to like them, and to dislike them. There are people that find them boring and people that find them TOO stressful/exciting and those that find them comfy. There are those who like the current Jobs as they are, those that want more damage and find them boring, those that want more healing, those that want less damage, and those that don't like any but AST. Your views and my views, views in between, and views even more on the "healers should heal" than my own are all represented there in JUST that one thread.

Contrast here.

If you can't see the contrast...I'd ask you to try looking again.

[Deo14]

Snip

I'm not really sure what's the point of all this. I think everyone understands that community is made out of millions of individuals with different opinions, and that even most controversial opinions will have thousands of supporters, you pulling anecdotes from casual subreddit which is more skewed towards healer mains doesn't really amount to anything.

You're more inclined to be on the more serious side of community if you visit this forum, and because of that, people here will see behind the shallow role that are healers. You can look at the comments in your mainsub's thread and most of them are "I like healers because they're shiny" or "because I can save my party in normal content". But other people have better insight, and don't judge surface level only, just like here.

So obviously, healers are split into casuals which mostly reside in mainsub, and more hardcore people who reside in here or places like r/ffxivdiscussion. Both views are valid, however, we have 4 healers, and all 4 of them are made to suit the casuals. Why can't we have current WHM and current SGE, and then more interesting AST and SCH?

[ForsakenRoe]

And in another thread of 'what do you want to see your main get in 7.0', I can sift through and see healer related things like:

SCH more uses for Fairy Gauge
WHM Seraph Strike from PVP
SCH 'energy drain more visual flair/stronger'
AOE version of ED for AOE pulls
Ruin 2 upgrading to something unique when reaching Broil levels
Meltdown for SCH
OGCD to replace Undraw that throws card at enemy for scratch damage (to show they'd rather just do token damage than buff an ally, apparently, i don't get it either)
Different functioning gapclosers on healers (WHM Seraph, SCH has Expedience, AST getting Urianger's Bridge-Skip tech)
Return Bane on SCH
More Kardia-interplay for SGE, such as AOE, boosting shields for Kardia target etc
AOE rescue???
ST Addersting dump skill
SGE 'another attack would not go amiss'
AST 'i want the rework to go all the way to it's core', sounds like they want old cards and Royal Road back
'Healers to have combo actions' (quote: 'Frankly being a glare bot is… exhausting. Holy spam in dungeons is also exhausting. It’s exhausting in the sense that it’s so damn boring.')

Someone says 'I miss when scholar had 2 dots and an aoe spread so much.', a familiar looking name then responds with 'I miss when SCH had 6 DOTS and cleric stance' (yeh me too)

'I think their healing kits are in a good place right now so it'd be more fun (personally) to see them get new skills that focus on damage.'
'Give me Seraph Strike from Bozja.'
'A teleport for Astro. Like a blink'
'For Scholar...I'm honestly content with Scholar's kit rn, no clue what they could add' (yeh neither do the devs, which is why I think it's at the point where it needs to be DRG'd)
'I'd like it if SCH got an improved version of energy drain.' (paraphrasing the context, they don't want it to do more damage, but to have additional effects like more HP restore, AOE damage, increase Bio duration, etc)
'Give me Sleeve Draw back on AST. But in all seriousness I would like a teleport ability called Astroglide where the AST slides along a trail of stars to a designated location.' (the name is sus but the concept is ok)
'GIMME MY OLD SELENE SKILLS BACK!'
'WHM: more oGCDs', and to follow on, 'I just want Regen to be oGCD' (Regen OGCD would need to be nerfed in potency or have at least a 90s CD but it could be interesting)
'AST: Two charges for Astrodyne and Exaltation' (not sure how 2 Astrodynes would work when you need seals to use em, but sure)

A comment chain between A and B:
A:
Healers: A 1-2-3 attack combo, a gauge build attack spell, and an oGCD attack.
Make healer more interesting to play for crying out loud. When people have a vague idea of what's happening in a fight, I barely need to heal anybody already. I actually enjoy it when shit hits the fan, cause at least the fight becomes a bit more interesting.

Immediately after, B:
SCH main here. No. I specifically play healer because I don't want to dedicate any mental real estate to pressing buttons.
If you want a real rotation go play a DPS.

A:
I don't want "a real rotation", I just want more than two buttons to press during a 10 minute fight.

B:
Play SMN then. It's almost as braindead as healer DPS.

(i think B missed the point of what A was asking for)

Someone else responded to A with 'I'd say removal of all DPS skills and make healing actually necessary.', said response is at -10 and therefore I had to click the + to show hidden comment
Multiple people respond to 'C' with some variation of 'that sounds boring as hell', C responds with 'it'd be boring if healing stays as it is now, make healing required more randomized and reactive' or some variation thereof
'Worst idea in the thread so far. How are you gonna do solo content, heal stuff to death?' (lol)

'Scholar: a change to emergency tactics and a new ogcd shield heal' (they don't like how SCH is 'barrier healer' but can only apply OGCD barrier with one skill (Consolation)(same))

'Please take half my skills and combine them or get rid of them, thanks. - Tank mains', with someone responding 'same, as a WHM'

'Healers: Something to break up how boring it is to heal now.'

A WHM says (paraphrased), 'stop floating for every spell cast it looks silly, also bring back elemental themes, also I don't really need new abilities, just trait upgrade current ones'
A SGE asking for the pseudo-Rescue and square shield that are in the role quests
Because arenas are big, 'I’d love to see WHM or all healers get like a remote heal like Lily Bell where you can place an epicenter for heals to help heal everyone in range without a majorly long cooldown.'

'AST: Gravity applies Heavy.' (I'd rather it applied Slow, so it affects attackspeed not movespeed, and cos SCH's Miasma had Heavy (which ideally comes back) but sure)
'WHM needs a second charge of Assize two expansions ago.' (true and real)
'I just want the ability to shield back on AST :’c (to which they were told 'neutral sect is right there', rather dismissive of the point they were trying to make but reddit sure loves to 'well ackshually' every tiny detail they can)
'WHM: Seraph Strike'
'Bring back the 4.0 AST cards.'
'Sects and Royal road for AST'
'AST's only mobility tool (Lightspeed) is currently dedicated to burst windows/card shuffling and I'd like that changed in some way that doesn't involve SMN level simplification of the job'
'Aoe Dia'
'I would love to have some sort of debuff for Astro!' (no mention of what kind of debuff)
'Would really like another AOE ability that follows up with Holy. I know Holy is very powerful, but just spamming a single button for an mob pull, with an occasional Assize, is a tad boring.' (haters will say 'you have Misery' and miss the point)
'For SCH I’d like them to replace ruin 2 with a better spell or just upgrade its animation, maybe make it like a fairy blast or just a low tier broil' (Meltdown?)
'I was literally just thinking how much I’d like a gap closer on WHM like Seraph Strike'
'I want AST to have a cooldown damage spell to give some sort of rotation, and either it's a black hole, or something suitably flashy and spacey.'
'I saw the headline and came here to immediately say gap closer for WHM. Saw what OP wrote and just nodded.' (OP asked for a gap closer for WHM, 'similar to Icarus')

'SGE Main - I think we're in a pretty good spot. But some niceties might include:

A good "Oh Sh!t" single target heal. Not as good as Bene, obviously, but something similar to an auto-crit Excog.
Temporary full party Kardia.
Ticks from E. Dosis trigger Kardia heals. Lower potency than direct damage triggers, of course.'

'All Healers: Another DPS button. Maybe some kind attack that procs off of your nuke or dot? Anything that would make the "rotation" more interesting.'
'Would it really be so terribly OP if SCH and SGE could auto-crit with their GCD heals outside of combat?' (QOL for prepull Adlo-spread, I assume)
'as a whm, yeah, id love a gap closer'
'As a WHM, I'd prefer sage's gap closer gets shoved into a role action instead of being specifically being added to us and not also scholar / astro.'
'I want them to do a review of SCH. I think the theme and fantasy of the job is good. I like fae stuff and I like the battle tactician aspect. It just feels a bit disjointed in application.' (and then a few examples like 'make gauge have more than one use')

'SGE: This is a hard one... SGE's kit is already pretty perfectly balanced around what we have... but, I wouldn't say no to more Addersting spenders or more uses for Eukrasia.'
'Not sure. Currently SCH already feels quite busy and clicky as it is and flows well. Plus, my hotbar is already really full. I think I'd rather see upgrades to existing skills over more buttons.'
'Sch, as specifically an upgrade to dissipation, the fairy jumps on your shoulder (or head if lala) and doubles up on any aetherflow action including energy drain for a short period of time' (reminds me of that 'Assimilation' idea)
'More single-target damage options for SGE. Like single-target versions of toxicon and phlegma. Also more eukrasia combos.'
Familiar name says: 'DoT’s return on scholar. Sage to have more damage buttons. Aero 3 and seraph strike on WHM. Stormblood style cards back on AST.'
'SGE (most healers tbh) could use like.. minimum of 3 more damage abilities, 1 or more movement abilities, and about.. 3 of their healing skills consolidated.'
'I want them to give Scholar haste that is single target so I can give someone mad dps power for pushes'
'As a SCH I feel like my job is pretty complete right now. I would be OK with getting anything. If I had to choose, I guess I would want more fairy abilities that are on the oGCD.'
'WHM: Uber blood Lily? I don’t know, I just want the bloody lily to feed a damage gain.' (not sure I agree on that one chief)
'SCH: Summon Seraph gets upgraded to Titania, for we are her lovely branch.' (ok this one's based, but they are the branch and we are the sapling)
'Fix SCH'

'I'd like useless 1-2-3 with no skill attached to pressing them to become a single button like PVP
It'd be cool for example, give a button that instead of upgrade Glare3 to "Glare IV" for WHM, actually do a combo like Stone > Gust > Glare (all elements whm used/use, which doesn't break combo if you stop to cast any heal), and let's say, completing 3rd would give you a buff that next heal is boosted by 5% or some really neat things. At least glaremage would still be glaremage, but see 3 different cool casts.'

paraphrased, someone asks for 'can we have instant 3 lilies on WHM like SGE gets, so we can actually use heals in the first minute of the fight' (probably would just lead to instant Misery but oh well let em)

'WHM: Litterally just give PVP Seraph Strike. Thats all I want. Its a gap closer, it does damage, and for the memes we can give it freecure as well. It isn’t like Freecure is a useful proc after level 50 anyway.'
'I want SCH to have more healing over time. I don’t want to even LOOK at my main healing options if I’m in a normal dungeon, just leg me do more damage'
'Maybe a mini-kardia on a second target'
'As Sage player: a reason to ever press toxicon. Its a dps down in both single target and AoE situations. a second addersting spender, maybe Lype as AoE dot.'
'Current SCH main. I'm happy with the place it's in. Maybe a charge counter for recitation.'
'They need to take a que from card games and turn AST cards into a deck.' (and then an explanation of what they mean by that, basically 'new cards bad rework pls')
'Besides, WHM has a gap closer. It's Rescue. When the entire party is doing their job, but one jackarse is out there doing their own thing, that DPS can adjust and get yoinked to the party.' (based)
'The ability for more damage to trigger kardia, like dots, just with a weaker potency.'
'One more button of DPS for WHM pls'

'All healers need dashes! I want an ultra sparkly one for AST. Also I'd like something like phlegma, AST damage is a bit.. lackluster. Even if you consider the damage you give to others through cards.
This or give me back sect swapping'

'I agree with you (not sure who) on WHM. Please just buff WHM in general'
'As a SGE main, more Icarus.' (ok one of your 92-100 traits is now burned on 'Icarus now has 3 charges', monkey's paw curls)

'More lasers on Sage. Actually give me a lightsabre for a melee attack. Please. Please give me a lightsabre SE. I dont want much, just a lightsabre. In all seriousness, maybe a crit guarantee like SCH but a little weaker, actually change Zoe to buff it to be like Reci, it'll be weaker because we dont have DT, but it'll still be pretty strong.' (idk about that Zoe change, but lightsaber melee attack sounds like something I read suggested before)

'For WHM I would like OCD Alliance wide AoE rezz with 100% heal on top of it. Miracle would be a fitting name.' (pov: you got Puppet's Bunker and people decided to play PVP)
'I don't main WHM, but I still feel like I'd like to trade Glare and Dia for Quake and Tornado.' (medium based)
'Auto-Life for Healers (basically let’s whoever is under this survive one mortal blow.)' (hilariously broken potential)
another 'more glam options for fairy as SCH, including favorite lovely branch' suggestion
'As AST I want to see LESS abilities, please take away that horrible haste buff that forces our lightspeed into 2m'
'Not my main but i rlly want faerie butterfly wings for sch or just something faerie related tbh'
'SGE: 2 minute buffed Eurkrasia that you can use on Pneuma or Phlegma. Eukrasian Pneuma could be erect a larger shield (like spreadlo) and Eukrasian Phlegma could be a melee combo like Ifrit on SMN'
'Extra Icarus dash/more safe mobility in general would be awesome but probably super overpowered'
'Animation updates for cure 1, diagnosis, physick etc. No actual buff, just make them look awesome.' (lol)
'yes give WHM a gap closer'
'Bring back Aero III and Disable ������������������'
'I stay awake every night praying for a WAR button that removes healers from the game entirely and gives us another dozen or so fell cleave casts' (lol, the way we're going this one will happen with 9.0)
'Sage-more reliable way to generate the dmg charges, allow me to break self shields or dismiss dot to generate a charge'
'AST - more charges on everything, plus a second charge on Earthly Star'
'Astro gap closer and bring back sleeve draw'
'A direct heal 'Oh Shit' button for Sage... Barriers are nice, but they are no benediction. Even something that just gives pure massive shield to a single target would be nice.'
'I think all healer jobs deserve gap closers personally.'
'Not my main but more dots for SCH'
'As a SCH player, really just an instant shield (a la Divine Benison) and an actual point to the Fairie Gauge'
'Bring back Shadowflare or riot'
'RERAISE! RERAISE! RERAISE!'
'Ast: Perhaps a tool that lets you instacast spells, so you actually have some mobility again. (*weeps in Lightspeed being hard required for 2 min windows*)'
'Honestly, I feel a gap-closer should be standard, if not for every class, at least for healers'
'100%, as a sage main I want to see all the other healers get a gap closer so I can actually go back to playing other healers again for the first time in two years'

As a healer and crafting main I want three things: 1.) A proper damage rotation because healing is so little of what I am actually pressing that I go numb when I heal a semi-competent party. 2.) Old Astro back. I want individual card effects and Royal Road back. I would happily go back to maining Astro over Sage if they gave me this. I will give anything for this. 3.) Crafting to actually be more difficult again. (triple-based)

'Make Scholars energy drain the equivalent to Phlegma'
'Egi glamour moonstone carbuncle/Egi glamour obsidian carbuncle'
'Sch: the ability to swap spots with eos.'
'I want Sage to get an even bigger laser. I don't care what the skill does, I just want a big f*** off laser even bigger than Pneuma. Preferably multiple lasers.'

'In general I'd like healers to have a somewhat more involved DPS kit that connects to their healing as well.
Like for Scholar, give us the second DoT back. Give us a new job gauge doohickey that's accumulated by DPSing. On every Broil cast, some amount of gauge is generated, the amount it generates scaling based on if you have 0/1/2 of your DoTs active on the target. At some amount of gauge buildup, you can spend it to do an oGCD Succor-equivalent. Despite being a shield healer, its only oGCD shielding is from Seraph. I don't think it needs a bunch of more oGCD shields, that can be Sage's thing, but I think just one more would be a welcome addition. Also an ability to swap position with your fairy would be neat.'

'pot of greed'

my WHM suggestion (yes I posted too)

'A water spell for white mage/conjurer. Either a shield/counter or an aoe dot preferable but I'd take anything really. Why is water the only element we can't use as a white mage (which has lore and quests revolving around the element)?'
'Sage wise having a cd that gives back more then 1 gall.'
'GNB/SCH/SMN: I literally don't want anything. SCH might be leaning on too bloated as it is. I want them to leave all three as close as they can to what they are now.'
'Im honestly very satisfied with sages kit. I just hope they dont take things away lol.'

'AST: I want the card system changed. I like the idea of the AST buffing party members with the cards, but the system doesn't feel rewarding when done right, but punishing when done wrong. It should feel like the opposite.
SCH: I want a big heal cd. Like our big heal cd is pooling our instant aoe heals and spamming them then. But I want a big healing button'

'hear me out, right... glare 4.' (whoa he's cookin')
'Ability to stay the same for two exansions in a row... I'm an Astrologian...'

'AST: Draw and Play are now GCDs but both do same damage as Malefic so that it is dps neutral.
Draw while out of combat is only 15 CD instead of usual 30 so AST teams don't have to count down to 30 second. T_T
Maybe an extra ogcd heal for lvl 100 skill'

'Sage: Kardia for party, party gets the benefit of Kardia for a set time.'
'Shaking OP's hand, Whm gap closer pls'
'I'd like all healers to have gap closers, and Summoners should get more egis.'
'Idea for AST: a trait that allows Celestial Opposition to trigger Horoscope Helios.'
'AST - make dealing with cards more meaningful or interesting, not just % damage increase.'
'Offensive uses for the Scholar Fairy Gauge.'

'I’d really like a WHM rework. I’m not sure what the goal of the class is right now. It feels like it’s just “healer with less mechanics” which isn’t a job identity it’s just a half empty kit. Maybe give WHM some GCD abilities with cool-downs? It doesn’t need to be a busy job, BLM has the lowest APM of any job in the game but has a distinct, unique play style.' (based and afflatus-pilled)

'As an ASTRO, I would love to finally utilize my cards in a more complex way!!Different effects for each card please!!'

'I want more multi target damage skills for my WHM. I want my damn aero III back or something like it. That and/or something like a long cooldown short window self raise where it will auto raise me on death as another mistake coverage option.'

'WHM: Afflatus Ubiquity. Gap closer/teleport but very elegant not a long slip. The character flashes in a few petals of yellow light and a soft fast serpentine follows the direction they went.
Quickly teleport to the target or selected area. Additional effect: Nourish the Blood Lily. Healing gauge cost: 1 Lily. Unable to cast if bound.' (a lily spender mobility tool, not seen that one before. I like the word Ubiquity though)

'As a healer. One of two things: Either reduce the self healing on tanks so we have a reason to be actively healing, or commit to the "everyone is a dps" and give a few more damage abilities.
Just anything. Even more buffs. Something like ast cards but more active. Every fight is just standing there casting the same single target spell over and over. I actually prefer dungeons with inexperienced tanks at this point because it makes me feel like a actual healer rather then the most boring dps who hits a aoe heal when the boss says to.' (i know the feeling)

'Every Job should get an" ultimate" skill that fits the class fantasy. Cause we reaching lvl 100. Also Healer got enough Healing. Give them fun Utility spells or even better more dps options'
'I really want more tools for play for more jobs. Something similar to the performance feature from Bard. Like some kind of card game from an AST, maybe similar to the shell game?' (tarot reading side-minigame thing ala perform could be cool)
'Sage using their medical knowledge to induce some sort of frailty in their foes sounds like a very cool, very fun thing to add to the job'
'I want WHM to get an upgrade to assize.'

'For WHM I want:
A "Salt and Darkness" like ability for Asylum.' (I'd take a Hollow Nozuchi style one that triggers when we Medica, Cure3 or Rapture)
'An ability to make the next Solace will also apply the Regen spell and/or the next Rapture will apply the Medica II regen
Some sort of mitigation ability now that Collective Unconscious can easily hit everyone' (cough Protect)
'Not a new ability but make Thin Air only work on the next healing or Raise so it can be used like Zoe' (I guess they're annoyed when they accidentally spend their TA on a Glare)

'All heals: replace [Heal] I with [Heal] II
White Mage: Second Blood Lily, Banish III on 60 second cooldown with large mana cost so we have something to actually use Thin Air on, second charge of Assize
Scholar: Give me my DoTs and Bane back, Dissipation eating Fairy gauge instead
Astrologian: please return SHB/STB astro
Sage: rework to focus on Kardia and DPS more, remove basic versions of heals, make Eukrasia change DPS spells to heals, followup attack to Phlegma'

'Give WHM cleric mode back.'
'Also a WHM main here, I would love a movement tech (even one that only goes to party members like Aetherial Manipulation), and also a second charge of Tetragrammaton. I know better than to hope for something like an AoE DoT.' (that's kinda sad)
'Hmm, Kardion on the while party for a while would be cool.'

and a special shoutout for some non-healer related ones,
MANY Kaiten requests, like at least 25-30
MANY Lionheart requests for GNB, like at least 15-20

'add kaiten to summoner'

'BLU be able to queue and play with others, balancing them out to be tank/dps/support depending on a spell SET placed.'
'BLU to not longer be limited'

'Dark Knight should get coin gauge.' (TRUE we've been waiting for this for so long come on SE)

Compared to how many people directly say 'more damage options', a lot less directly say 'NO more damage options'. Which tells me that a fairly large section would be of the opinion of 'ok whatever' if they got more damage options, and same if they did not. SO the solution would be, I would think, to try and find a way to have a small amount of new damage buttons, but have their impact on the rotation be fairly large comparatively, while also keeping the punishment for mis-executing low via potency balancing.

Both views are valid, however, we have 4 healers, and all 4 of them are made to suit the casuals. Why can't we have current WHM and current SGE, and then more interesting AST and SCH?

No no, we're meant to be an echo chamber, remember, suggesting that one of the healers remains as is would be running counter to the groupthink we have going on here /s

[Renathras]

I'm not really sure what's the point of all this. I think everyone understands that community is made out of millions of individuals with different opinions,

You would think that.

What I'm pointing out is that it's true, despite people here constantly telling me I'm alone in my opinions. In another thread, a poster was asking me what "people" were in agreement with me. Many times it's been brought up my posts here get ratioed/no likes, and that everyone here disagrees with me as proof that the view here is more or less universal and has no strong disagreement among the playerbase.

So you would think that, but clearly, people here DON'T seem to get that. If they did, they wouldn't say things like:

Been reading through threads searchable from "healer" or "healer gameplay" for the last couple hours (over a dozen threads so far scanned in full, many more skimmed) and gone through the replies therein... all to find the most liked comments (after those with purely direct answers to the OP's questions), sadly, centered on stuff like "What healing lol?" "Thought ends as soon as you've solved the fight, leaving you with only very barebone execution", "Expect to be bored after prog", "Green DPS", "Gutted gameplay", and "Your reward for getting good is to be less of a healer... which you could also do by just switching to WAR in the first place", etc...

I'm not seeing any less a portion of negativity there than here.

It does seem like it needs to be pointed out that this place does NOT represent as wide a swath of views as the people here who all seem to agree with one another (hence echo chamber) suggest it does.

I also disagree with the notion that "You're more inclined to be on the more serious side of community if you visit this forum"; a lot of people believe this official forum (as a whole and the role sections) are toxic. The serious discussions/posters are on r/ffxivdiscussion, and they routinely mock this place. So I don't think your argument holds at all.

I quoted all the posts related to healers. Note that only two were "I like healers because they're shiny" (one being liking magic DPS as well because they like wizards). The rest were talking about how they enjoy or dislike healing as a role in a more general sense, with several even suggesting less damage focus in favor of more healing. They might have better insight than you give them credit for.

.

In any case "what's the point" is to counter the argument that THIS PLACE is a wide open forum of diverse viewpoints and that mine alone is somehow out of the mainstream. If mine seems very much in the mainstream there, and that's a far larger portion of the community (far more posters means probably representing a larger sample size), then that suggests that this place is more what's out of the mainstream, or at least only representing one side of it.

And in another thread of 'what do you want to see your main get in 7.0', I can sift through and see healer related things like:

I'm sure you can. Not to accuse you of duplicity, but unlike me, you didn't provide a link. I have to question if you did and I went through the comments, if I might find a lot there disagreeing with the ones you picked to show. Note I posted ALL of the healer related ones from my thread, which shows both sides are valid.

But please, provide the thread link. I'd love to read through the comments myself.

.

That said:

Both views are valid, however, we have 4 healers, and all 4 of them are made to suit the casuals. Why can't we have current WHM and current SGE, and then more interesting AST and SCH?

This is literally my argument here all the time and I get flayed for it.

That's actually more extreme than mine - mine is for only WHM or SGE to stay as it is, AST to get more buffs/related gameplay, SCH to be returned to its SB version, and either SGE or WHM to have a damage kit (probably SGE due to Kardia, but could instead do it with WHM and leave SGE as it is considering it's always been in this state and never had anything like Cleric stance or Aero 3 for people to miss/want back).

I make this argument here all the time. I even have a name for it "The 4 Healers Model". The idea that we have 4 Healer Jobs, and the issue (among many, but related to Job kits/design/playstyle) is that they all play the same. I don't think going from one same (casual/easy) to another same (all hardcore/complex) is the solution. I think the solution is to split and have some representing each.

That is the argument I make here all the bloody time, and get told I'm the only person who thinks that way, that I want "ez mode", "braindead", etc etc.

Amusingly, you get 3 (as of right now) Likes for proposing an even more to the casual side than my own version of this idea. Kinda proves my point all it takes to get likes in this subforum is to be attacking/seen as attacking Ren. Thank you for helping prove that point, too.

No no, we're meant to be an echo chamber, remember, suggesting that one of the healers remains as is would be running counter to the groupthink we have going on here /s

Deo isn't a routine poster here, and is the first - and to date only - poster, in one single post, I've seen endorse my idea. And was doing it as an opposition (I guess Deo thought opposition...) to me, that is, that Deo seems to have thought it was an argument against me, not realizing it was literally my older position before I compromised and gave up either WHM or SGE as well, in a post that was opposing my prior one.

And got 3 Likes for the effort, proving what I always say; bashing Ren is how people here give out/get likes, not good or bad posts. The fact Deo got likes for saying what I say all the time that I get told is a terrible idea and browbeaten over kind of proves that.

[Shurrikhan]

It does seem like it needs to be pointed out that this place does NOT represent as wide a swath of views as the people here who all seem to agree with one another (hence echo chamber) suggest it does.

I also disagree with the notion that "You're more inclined to be on the more serious side of community if you visit this forum"; a lot of people believe this official forum (as a whole and the role sections) are toxic. The serious discussions/posters are on r/ffxivdiscussion, and they routinely mock this place. So I don't think your argument holds at all.

There's a difference between representing a wide swath of interests and a wide swath of ideas.

Put 10,000 people chosen randomly from throughout the world and put them on the same project or in the same kind of activity for 5+ years.

They will at first have a wide swath of interests and a wide swath of ideas.

Thereafter, for a time, the numbers of ideas on the project or activity at hand will grow.

After that, though, the number of ideas will shrink, because the worse ones will have already been parsed out.

What you continually assume to be differences in interest by which to dismiss the ideas developed on the OF (unless, of course, they're yours or in agreement with yours) may very well simply be a result of the participants being in closer, more consistent, multiple-thread-spanning contact with one another, which allows for far more detailed parsing of ideas.

There's a reason you see productive discourse on rDPS, aDPS, "taxation" and the like here, while such discourse is often stymied on r/xivdiscussion and often isn't even worth referring to on r/ffxiv. There's a reason why most concrete suggestions on that main or subreddit are usually copy-pasted from here, from a longform suggestion video by an abnormally involved gameplay-/theory-crafter, or are a cobble of OF ideas. There's simply more prolonged exposure and discussion here. People get to know each other, and threads see far more cross-over.

That deeper discussion pares away less functional ideas does not make its participants all suddenly skewed in their interests.

So obviously, healers are split into casuals which mostly reside in mainsub, and more hardcore people who reside in here or places like r/ffxivdiscussion. Both views are valid, however, we have 4 healers, and all 4 of them are made to suit the casuals. Why can't we have current WHM and current SGE, and then more interesting AST and SCH?

Honestly? Because why sacrifice any of them?

No, seriously. Unless we can actually find some significant group of people who actually like spending 80+% of their GCDs on a single button, that's not an aspect worth maintaining -- on any healer. And that can be changed with very, very little overflow (affecting other aspects of that job's gameplay, capacities, and, say, their skill / effort-to-output curve*).

* This refers to the % of maximal performance possible under a particular product of forms of [variably weighted] optimization and execution of each. Generally, you want that to output to feel fairly logarithmic compared to effort, increasingly but smoothly decreasing in its returns, such that, say, perfecting Transpose lines is never going to overtake the significance of more core optimizations like maximizing relative uptime, good AF/UI cycling, etc.

That doesn't mean they should suddenly get complex rotations or, gods forbid, cumulatively punishing actions (like combos, where each GCD spent towards them increases the punishment of fat-fingering / not completing said combo), nor does it mean damage should be so overwhelming that GCD heals suddenly outnumber the GCDs of an otherwise unchanged filler-attack-spam. Both could carry excessive overall change that could then have a net negative impact, and should therefore be treated with caution and would lack the warrant for that extent of change.

But it does mean that there are one or more aspects whose changes would improve the job overall for nearly all players. And no job should be disallowed from seeing those fine, unobtrusive improvements by being left precisely as is.

And got 3 Likes for the effort, proving what I always say; bashing Ren is how people here give out/get likes, not good or bad posts. The fact Deo got likes for saying what I say all the time that I get told is a terrible idea and browbeaten over kind of proves that.

The inclusion of the <sacrifice any chance of even minutely improving 1-2 jobs to appease whatever tiny portion of people prefer the current state of Broil-spam, little to no GCD healing, lack of meaningful support, etc.> idea is the only reason I can't like that post, despite it making a ton of sense up until that point. Perhaps most looked at the remaining 90% of the post and liked it accordingly?

I doesn't matter who speaks it. I didn't care for it any more when Misshapen Chair first brought it up, before you co-opted it. I'm not going to care any more for telling 1-2 jobs to f off and be the sacrificial lamb now.

[Deo14]

This is literally my argument here all the time and I get flayed for it.

That's actually more extreme than mine - mine is for only WHM or SGE to stay as it is, AST to get more buffs/related gameplay, SCH to be returned to its SB version, and either SGE or WHM to have a damage kit (probably SGE due to Kardia, but could instead do it with WHM and leave SGE as it is considering it's always been in this state and never had anything like Cleric stance or Aero 3 for people to miss/want back).

I make this argument here all the time. I even have a name for it "The 4 Healers Model". The idea that we have 4 Healer Jobs, and the issue (among many, but related to Job kits/design/playstyle) is that they all play the same. I don't think going from one same (casual/easy) to another same (all hardcore/complex) is the solution. I think the solution is to split and have some representing each.

That is the argument I make here all the bloody time, and get told I'm the only person who thinks that way, that I want "ez mode", "braindead", etc etc.

I'm not gonna lie, I don't have much of an idea what's the general consensus on healers here, other than that people are bored from spamming same button. Even though I barely play healers nowadays, I used to love healing in every game, but well, FFXIV's healers don't meet my expectations when it comes to healing so I play mostly SAM/PLD, which is why I don't come in this part of forums very often.

I thought that idea to keep WHM same and make others interesting is somewhat popular, but that might be general consensus from somewhere else. I guess it makes sense in light of current SMN and RDM situation. People are probably worried that making WHM too easy relatively to other healers will make people choose WHM for the sake of accessibility, and that people playing harder jobs will not be rewarded accordingly for their higher efforts, which is completely fair, because that is happening right now with SMN and RDM.

But well, I don't really want to read 10s of pages of posts to find out whether mine and yours idea is popular or not. But I'll stand by it (unless someone gives me some insight why it's bad idea, of course), even though I understand the risk of it being implemented the same way SMN was. My reasoning is that WHM is simply most favorite job for casuals, so I think that if SE actually did some drastic changes to healers, WHM is last job they would drastically change, especially if it meant making it more difficult. I myself would love if all 4 healers were very distinct, had a lot of space for skill expressions, and had better gameplay than 12111111, but I really think that keeping one simple job for casuals is much more realistic scenario that SE might consider and even implement. They do not want to alienate casuals which are playing WHM because of it's simplicity, it's simple as that.

Irrelevant to healers:

Anyways, there are more reasons why people don't want to side with you or why you're not getting upvotes or whatever pointless internet points. Just learn to make shorter text. Your essays are just intimitating, nobody is going to agree with something they haven't read, people just see wall of text and skip it. And don't get missconception that most people do read it because people respond to you. If someone reads such an essay, then I bet they feel more inclined to give response to it.

Another is your attitude - do you remember whole "BLM cannot slidecast" argument? You were in the wrong, but you kept trying to defend yourself. Next like 3-5 comments after your initial statement told you that BLM can indeed slidecast, all in very neutral tone, but because you kept trying to defend yourself, it escalated and people just started to dogpile on. And then you've made that comemnt where you attacked everyone.

Same goes for our last argument (which we unfortunately didn't finish, because it seems that some people dislike me so much they spam reported my week old comment which had 2 swear words in it, which resulted in 10 days "vacation". I made fun of pedophiles and mainsub just few hours before my ban, so that's probably their job). Anyways, in that argument, you tried to argue my napkin math, with more non-sensical napkin math. And when I proved you wrong, you just like always tried to nitpick your way out of it. Just learn to admit mistakes. You don't need to write public apology or anything, just leave conversation, and stop dying on the most stupid hills.

This is why people start to make fun of you - you even said the legendary "Consider yourself informed, now" after saying a load of incorrect info, with all the nitpicking, mental gymnastics and other cheap tricks in attempt to try to make it seem like you're right. After that, well, your reputation just preceeds you, so many people will be against you just because it's you. This is human nature, this isn't some high school discussion club, where personal attacks and biases are out of questions.

Combine all of this with not very popular opinions, and then it can seem like everyone is against you.

[ForsakenRoe]

I'm sure you can. Not to accuse you of duplicity, but unlike me, you didn't provide a link. I have to question if you did and I went through the comments, if I might find a lot there disagreeing with the ones you picked to show. Note I posted ALL of the healer related ones from my thread, which shows both sides are valid.

https://old.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._see_added_to/

Knock yourself out. I tried to catch every healer related one but a couple might have slipped through the net

I doesn't matter who speaks it. I didn't care for it any more when Misshapen Chair first brought it up, before you co-opted it. I'm not going to care any more for telling 1-2 jobs to f off and be the sacrificial lamb now.

I was actually curious about it, so I went back and rewatched the video in question (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbWubxOTUWU) and... yeh, there's a lot of sarcasm and cynical tone. A lot of the things we have discussed over and over here, he also mentions in the video. Things like 'fight design hasn't changed all that much re: how much healing we have to do', 'we've always had to contribute to DPS checks', stuff like that. So I find it weird that all of that seems to have been cast to the wayside with the '4 healers model' being bandied around, like only the final minute of the video was to be considered, especially when he mentions the age old point of 'raising healing required screws over previous content and requires fight designers to completely rethink how they create raids' vs 'you have a slightly more intricate filler rotation'

[AmiableApkallu]

My reasoning is that WHM is simply most favorite job for casuals, so I think that if SE actually did some drastic changes to healers, WHM is last job they would drastically change, especially if it meant making it more difficult. I myself would love if all 4 healers were very distinct, had a lot of space for skill expressions, and had better gameplay than 12111111, but I really think that keeping one simple job for casuals is much more realistic scenario that SE might consider and even implement. They do not want to alienate casuals which are playing WHM because of it's simplicity, it's simple as that.

And I wish that SE would realize that what makes WHM friendly to "casuals" is it's Lv.50 kit and how MSQ encounters are currently designed.

Unless the tank(s) have never heard of stance or mitigations, and unless the rest of the party thinks the goal is to stand in the orange 100% of the time, Lv.50 WHM has what it takes: Readily available HP restoration. And if you find yourself running low on MP, just don't do anything for a few moments. There's no meaningful enrage to contend with.

That leaves multiple expacs worth of levels to do something interesting and exciting with WHM.