Healer role design change?

[Shurrikhan]

There's no cheat or fallacy there, some people just don't like it because when arguments are broken down into steps, it often lays bare glaring errors in logic that someone may have used to reach their conclusion.

The problem is when you frame things into false ultimatums in order to try to force out your next "logical step" towards a conclusion you clearly started from.

Belabor transitive properties all you like; when those steps individually rely on reductivism or conflations, their conclusions are not going to be soundly arrived at.

Do you or do you not agree that encounter design and healer kits seem to not be designed to work with one another?

Yes.

WHICH IS NOT, HOWEVER, despite whatever you may imply, AGREEMENT THAT... fight design needs to have its mobility requirements significantly reduced (or even any amount greater than between 'not at all' and 'slightly'). I am just fine with casters and melee both having a deeper fight-specific learning curve for their movement/uptime optimization required, so long as they're compensated accordingly, and I'm just fine with movement optimizations increasing with expansions, provided we just as much toolage as we need to perform them.

I do not want to see those layers of optimization removed from jobs -- neither by homogenizing/fool-proofing their kits in regard to uptime management nor by providing significantly less challenge around which to interact in any given fight; it is perfectly fine for a level span that provides additional mobility tools to also carry additional mobility requirements. Moreover, I don't see how one could call Endwalker a sudden change into "an ARPG" except in obvious hyperbole.


Our agreement goes as far as "The current situation is not good." Beyond that incredibly nebulous point, though, we have largely disagreed:

• on the extent to which it is "not good",
• on all but one reason for why it's "not good", and
• on all but one part of reasonable solutions for the problem.

And those components are important. That we would, for instance, agree that a problem (of some extent, for some reason), on the other hand, is barely a starting point. So just, please, do not pretend that my simply agreeing that "A exists" necessitates your B, C, and D. It doesn't.

[Renathras]

The problem is...

/ignore

[EDIT: I don't mean this to be rude, but again, engaging with this is counterproductive, derailing, and legitimizes you doing it, and I don't intend to legitimize your personal attacks based on made up events. I've just decided it's better not to engage after pointing out once that it's wrong.]

Yes.

WHICH IS NOT, HOWEVER, despite whatever you may imply, AGREEMENT THAT... fight design needs to have its mobility requirements significantly reduced (or even any amount greater than between 'not at all' and 'slightly').

And?

I didn't say it was.

I, myself, outlined three possible solutions that are all apparent as possibilities - change fight design, change kit design, change both - and that there are probably other possibilities.

You're doing it again - insisting that I'm saying something that I'm not saying. Maybe if you did that less, you'd be less worked up when replying to me. Stop inventing things to be angry about. I literally said there were AT LEAST three (two and a hybrid) possible solutions, AND that there were other solutions likely as well, just the 2+1 were the most apparent TO ME PERSONALLY. By saying this, there is no "pretend...that "A exists" necessitates..." when I openly said there are other possibilities.

Agreement that fight design and kits are disjointed is just that and no more.

Again, don't invent things to be angry about.

You're one of those people that invents things in my posts to be angry about (I doubt you can provide the quote I asked for; it was in an edit, but I was called away until just now, so apologies for the late edit on that, didn't see this post when I submitted it) and that festers in your mind, justifying your anger when in reality, it's not justified at all since it's based on something that never happened.

So just, please, try to stop doing that.

.

EDIT2:

The 'I'm out, but not really' any% speedrun

You're welcome to step in any time. Just keeping the soapbox warm for you. You have the floor. (Well, the offer was to Semi, but have at it, Roe). Say something contributing to the discussion, not the personal attacks or dogpile, is my only request here.