Can 7.0 focus on a storyline without the philosophizing

[TheDecay]

Hm. I'm having a weird thought here, and I'm not sure if it's a synaptic misfire or something worth writing down. I think one of the things that's been nagging at me about the story lately is the weird mix of philosophies they're doing. What I mean by that is, they're talking a big game about meaning, despair, struggling forward despite it all, etc etc. And then they're pairing it with this weird mushy "everyone's just trying their best and everyone's a good person deep down and there are no real villains only people we haven't spent enough time yapping philosophy at" vague-occasionally-venturing-into-cutesy kumbaya vibe that's just....nooooot landing with me, especially in the EW patch content. I've encountered some meaty, juicy stories that mix existential angst with humor, but something about this isn't doing it for me.

It's because existentialism is a philosophy that is against essentializing yourself or others. It's about living authentically.

However, some of the main characters in FF14 are very much not living authentically, at least to normal humans like us. They are caricatures, tropes, essences. For a game that has frequently espoused the virtue of celebrating humanity, the human experience, and free will, even if it means making mistakes and being flawed, most of the main Scions do not seem to actually do so since HW. Long gone are the days of Alphinaud actually suffering any consequence from his mistakes. Failing again and again and yet persisting, like Camus' Sisphyus, even if it were futile, can be a potent symbol. Some of the Scions reference this idea at times, saying that they will fight even if the odds are insurmountable. But in the story they are as surmountable as a gentle, carpeted straight road.

Living authentically is not easy. Living authentically is scary because failure no longer has an external excuse - failures belong to you. That kind of is the point of existentialism. If there are no stakes, the philosophy rings hollow, because anyone can do it. Anyone can defy fate if they know they're not going to actually die. Anyone can say that they embrace humanity's flaws and failures if people always get inspired by them and are nice to them - and if they do not, they almost always will after two quests of convincing with good deeds. Anyone can want to fight on if they never failed.

The philosophy the Scions espouse only has merit if we start seeing them actually display human flaws and fail more often.

[Semirhage]

It's because existentialism is a philosophy that is against essentializing yourself or others. It's about living authentically.

However, some of the main characters in FF14 are very much not living authentically, at least to normal humans like us. They are caricatures, tropes, essences. For a game that has frequently espoused the virtue of celebrating humanity, the human experience, and free will, even if it means making mistakes and being flawed, most of the main Scions do not seem to actually do so since HW. Long gone are the days of Alphinaud actually suffering any consequence from his mistakes. Failing again and again and yet persisting, like Camus' Sisphyus, even if it were futile, can be a potent symbol. Some of the Scions reference this idea at times, saying that they will fight even if the odds are insurmountable. But in the story they are as surmountable as a gentle, carpeted straight road.

Living authentically is not easy. Living authentically is scary because failure no longer has an external excuse - failures belong to you. That kind of is the point of existentialism. If there are no stakes, the philosophy rings hollow, because anyone can do it. Anyone can defy fate if they know they're not going to actually die. Anyone can say that they embrace humanity's flaws and failures if people always get inspired by them and are nice to them - and if they do not, they almost always will after two quests of convincing with good deeds. Anyone can want to fight on if they never failed.

The philosophy the Scions espouse only has merit if we start seeing them actually display human flaws and fail more often.

Yeah, I think the clash is extra dissonant because I've seen it done well, especially outside FFXIV. Shadowbringers? Great. Mwah. A fantastical character we see making a evil choices for a recognizably human reason? Alphinaud telling him "it makes no difference" was excellent. Confronting someone who claims they have no choice and reminding them that everything comes down to choices is one of the places an existentialist story truly shines.

Endwalker's been riding too long on "oh, this group of people despises me, stands between me and my goal? I wonder what the right choice could b...PFFFFFF nevermind I'll just bake them an effing pie or something and they'll let me pass because now they see I'm a hero".

Those aren't choices. Nobody behaves like that. It's taking any avenue toward believable writing and mulching it under the Power of Love and Friendship.

[Eorzean_username]

Anyone can say that they embrace humanity's flaws and failures if people always get inspired by them and are nice to them - and if they do not, they almost always will after two quests of convincing with good deeds. Anyone can want to fight on if they never failed.

I was convinced that when the "grumpy Garlean" in 6.40 MSQ wandered off into the city, it was going to be some fake-out heroic moment, and we'd find him dead or something, and have to confront the consequences of infighting, etc. Because it couldn't possibly be going down as obvious and banal a path as it seemed, right?

Nope.

It really was just, "Oh I bumped into a robot, but you killed the robot, I'm sorry I was mean to you, I've changed my political views completely, let's stop obstructing your plot device".

Why did it even need to happen?

Why am I even here, at this point?

You could just summarise this in a pop-up text and I would feel like my time was better spent.

[TheDecay]

I was convinced that when the "grumpy Garlean" in 6.40 MSQ wandered off into the city, it was going to be some fake-out heroic moment, and we'd find him dead or something, and have to confront the consequences of infighting, etc. Because it couldn't possibly be going down as obvious and banal a path as it seemed, right?

Nope.

It really was just, "Oh I bumped into a robot, but you killed the robot, I'm sorry I was mean to you, I've changed my political views completely, let's stop obstructing your plot device".

Why did it even need to happen?

Why am I even here, at this point?

You could just summarise this in a pop-up text and I would feel like my time was better spent.

Exactly. This is another big issue. People just don't behave like that realistically. People are stubborn and it can take a long time to convince them of something. Sometimes, in trying to convince them of something they might even retaliate.

But this game almost never shows that these days. The dev team has shown flawed characters (Alphinaud) and what that flaw wrought (2.55), but I wonder why we never see it anymore.