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  1. #16
    Player
    Renathras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,747
    Character
    Ren Thras
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kikio_The_Blu View Post
    I mean having two buttons to press like a mch rotation to keep uptime is more engaging than 11111111111 forever. Even if it adds nothing of value it adds interest to the class, and I would rather have a class be interesting than feel like im falling asleep piloting it in savages.
    This depends on the person. There are several usual posters here - ones who want more damage buttons, mind you - that say a 1-2-3 rotation is the same as 111 and they are opposed to it.

    It's why the ideal solution is to have different things on the different Healer Jobs, not just replace "they all have the same thing" with "they all have the same thing, it's just different from the first thing". Look at Melee, for example. In the 5 Melee Jobs, their rotations are:

    DRG: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0-5-4 repeat (or something loosely akin to that)
    MNK: 1-2-3-4-5-6-1-2-6-4-5-3-1-2-6-4-5-6 repeat (ignoring the Blitz mechanic)
    NIN: 1-2-4-1-2-3-...-3-1-2-4 repeat (you can use two -4 combos together and then not have to do another for 60 sec, so there's flexibility, but it's that)
    SAM: 1-2-3-1-4-1-5-6 repeat (the order can be changed depending on what you're doing, and Meikyo you use with just -2-4-6, the finishers of each of the three)
    RPR: ??? Haven't touched it, but looking at the actions and looking at the Balance guide, the core rotation appears to be (someone can correct this if they want, but it's not really relevant to the point) 1-2-3, it kinda has a -4, but Shadow of Death isn't part of its combo (so is more like Huraijin, except you want to use it) (with a bunch of spenders and stuff thrown in), then it has the burst combos, using different buttons (instead of context changing those), but...yeah, you get the idea.

    Point is, they're all different. No two of them can be perfectly mapped together. If you put NIN's 1-2-3 where you put SAM's 1-2-3, then put NIN's -4 where you put SAM's -4, then attempt to play NIN like SAM pressing 1-2-3-1-4...see where the problem comes in? For one thing, Huton wouldn't refresh since Armor Crush doesn't refresh it unless it's part of a properly executed 1-2-4 combo.

    Taking all four Healers and giving them a 1-2-3 wouldn't really make them different, it'd just make them a different flavor of all the same, which is the problem. Yes yes, I know "they're all boring" is the problem (to some people), but making them a different same doesn't really fix anything, as even that will get boring. The point is that they should change it up. Take a page from Melee and have each Healer Job have a different rotation. If every Melee played like NIN in 5 aesthetic flavors, it'd be bad design, not good design. No matter how interesting you might find a 1-2-3, giving all Healers the same thing doesn't fix the problem.

    Oh, and note that I'm not opposed to a healer having a 1-2-3. I'd actually like ONE to. I think it would fit SGE best, and I hate DoTs, so getting rid of that would be fine with me. I absolutely hate that every Healer's mainline rotation is "DoT + spamnuke until DoT refresh', since I absolutely hate DoTs. Having a Healer that had a 1-2-3 rotation instead of 2-1-1-1-1-1-1 I would prefer.

    But I don't think every Healer should have the same rotation. That's the point I'm getting at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeastria View Post
    I also want to point out that:
    it's all right to not like a job/role -> but it doesn't automatically mean it's something wrong with said job/role..
    It can also be the fact that it isn't for you..
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaxSw View Post
    I would like to also point out that most of the complaints are backed with real ingame data so they're not just a matter of like/dislike,
    But they are.

    Keep in mind those metrics are broken down into like/dislike. It's not a case of "just the facts, ma'am". People aren't saying "Healers use 70% of their GCDs on a single button". People are saying "Healers use 70% of their GCDs on a single button over and over again and I find that boring and don't like it".

    That said: My position, again, is to mix them up. Being all the same means no one can escape if they dislike the way it plays. Again, it'd be like if every Melee played like NIN. That'd be great for the people who like how NIN plays and can now do it in 5 aesthetic flavors, but it wouldn't be so great for the people who like how DRG or MNK play.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaxSw View Post
    It would be weird that the role isn't for the people that have more experience and have played it the most too.
    This is always, 100% of the time, a bad argument.

    "played it the most"? Many people who have never set foot in Savage have spent years playing these Jobs. How do we define "played it the most"? If someone started in ShB and has Savage and Ultimate clears but 50 days played vs someone who has played for 500 days going back to 2.X but never touched a Savage or Ultimate, who has "played it the most" between them? Who has "more experience"? Not to mention the various Jobs within the role have played differently from both each other and even from themselves over time/through the expansions.

    No, one group does not get exclusive "super-delegate" powers regarding design discussions.
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    Last edited by Renathras; 06-19-2023 at 06:07 AM. Reason: EDIT for length