Your Opinion on the Current State of Job Identity/Balance in 6.4?

[Absurdity]

Which reminds me, Squeenix could really implement a QoL feature like the WoW addon that shows the slidecast window in your castbar, depending on your latency.

The big question is whether or not slidecasting is even intentional or simply a side effect of the jank netcoding.

For all we know they could overhaul the netcode to recognize movement instantly (or as instantly as possible when taking latency into account) and our ability to slidecast would suddenly be severely limited.

[Ivtrix]

The big question is whether or not slidecasting is even intentional or simply a side effect of the jank netcoding.

For all we know they could overhaul the netcode to recognize movement instantly (or as instantly as possible when taking latency into account) and our ability to slidecast would suddenly be severely limited.

Def jank net coding

I view it the same as tick manipulation in OSRS. Not intended, but it’s been around so long it’s essentially a core feature

[Tint]

Which reminds me, Squeenix could really implement a QoL feature like the WoW addon that shows the slidecast window in your castbar, depending on your latency.

I read somewhere that you can place an emote on the hotbar and when it is no longer greyed out it is safe to move.

[ForteNightshade]

Maybe don't call people out on things they can school you on.

So I just did the BLM AoE rotation on a target dummy with only 495 Spell Speed, which is awful for BLM. I was able to slidecast through every single ability, yes even High Fire/Blizzard and Flare. I could also do so with Aero/Thunder on RDM. Now they were micro-steps, especially on the aforementioned Ver spells and Flare but it's doable for the exact reason Sebazy outlined. You can "cheat" movement this way with every cast in the game because the whole functionality behind slidecasting is your ping to the server.

Perhaps you should actually practice the rotations before attempting to "school" others on it.

[Dekent]

Balance is pretty good, but that is because the job identity is practically non-existent among some roles. Tanks are my my favorite and having them all at 90, they are 93% the same with a few minor quirks. The particles they poop out is the biggest difference between them.

I feel like the problem is the game is designed around the 120 second burst rule, and every fight is just a DPS check with an enrage timer. Healing and tanking are braindead and everyone's main role is to meet the DPS check. It's to late for this to change now really, but hopefully when we get a 3rd final fantasy online it will be built from the ground up to be more engaging and varied.

[Raikai]

I feel like the problem is the game is designed around the 120 second burst rule, and every fight is just a DPS check with an enrage timer. Healing and tanking are braindead and everyone's main role is to meet the DPS check.

In fact, I'll add to this saying that dps checks are meaningless during prog, unless the boss has a mini enrage part midway (which honestly is never that hard to deal with). You can do mediocre dps with a messy rotation, as long as you're able to do the mechanics. You just need to do your best when your grup reached the last enrage point.

I'm not sure if I prefer this, or WoW's style of the boss phases moving forward with health %s, but the 120s burst really gets to be a huge weight when it comes to job design, across the board. A dps job's bread and butter ends up being composed of a gimmick to spice up the rotation, and everything else meant to be aligned to the 120s mark or you're heavily punished. It's funny to me that the design before was still bound to certain timeframe alignments, but the marks were scattered across different jobs rather than a global meta, and to me it was more interesting because it required you to think more and understand the timings of what you had at your disposal from your party's kits.

XIV is a dear game to me, but job design (and glamour restrictions) are probably the only weak points.

[Renathras]

...man who said BLM can't slidecast.

This is why people on the internet suck:

You accuse someone of saying something they didn't say.
Prance around about being wrong.
Prance around about lying.
And idiots support you for being wrong and lying.

Thank god the game itself isn't as bad as the forum community is.

How do people think a WHM in Shadowbringer can keep 95% or higher GCD uptime in raids when their Glare was still 2.50s and still do mechanics right when they’re not using lily spells/swiftglare/early Dia refresh?

Yep, slidecast. Lol.

(actually just before, but this is latency dependent)

You have about 0.5 sec on a 2.5 sec cast. This is highly latency dependent and also results from the communication between sever and client. Try to slidecast with a Slipstream. You can, but you're very likely going to clip your GCD to do so. If you don't care, that's fine, you can do that. But that's what I'm referring to. You can get some motion, but you're cutting into your next CD with longer casts.

It is a pretty minimal DPS loss, so if you want to eat it, there's really nothing wrong with that.

I can get ~1 yalm on BLM after a Blizzard 3 cast from the time my emote lights up (allowing slidecast) until the GCD is finished and I can startcasting the next Blizzard 3. On the other hand, I can get around 7 on WHM after Glare (1.5 sec), or around 4 after Medica (2 sec).

Also, for the record: This was LITERALLY MY ARGUMENT:

If the argument was - and it was - that fights are too movement oriented to use GCD heals, then they'd also be too movement oriented to use GCD damage casts. And while BLM has insane movement if prepped for it and rolling through their various movement tools, it's not INFINITE. BLM isn't SMN. Meaning if BLM can get away with it in current content, so can Healers.

ALL OF YOU attacking me over this are just PROVING THE INITIAL POINT I MADE CORRECT. You just are so adamant about counter-arguing me at every turn, you didn't bother to realize it.

(Seriously, people need to stop rushing for a "gotcha" so hard they step into being extremely easily schooled.)

You guys REALLY need to stop being dicks for dogpile points.

How much mental gymnastics...

Holy angry A-hole, Batman!

Good god, who peed in your cornflakes? o.O

So?

This is the problem with your entire post:

You didn't bother to even understand what was being said before responding in angrybird mode.

"So" is that I said why I don't like a thing, a person told me why that person liked the thing/tried to talk around/talk me into liking that thing, and I explained why I don't like the thing. That's the "So".

Going on an unhinged, insult laden tirade doesn't make someone agree with you. I still don't like GW2 and like FFXIV and do so because, in part, FFXIV has a Trinity system, from the ground up, was built around it, and still uses it. You calling me names and insulting me doesn't make me more likely to enjoy the thing you enjoy that I don't enjoy. And, frankly, it's kind of stupid that you even think it will OR are trying to change someone else's preferences in the first place.

I never said I was "some veteran", nor did I claim to be an expert on the game. The topic - had you bothered to read and understand it before replying like an angry Twitterer discovering Reddit for the first time from his mother's basement - was about removing or dampening the Trinity from FFXIV, why that might be a good idea, comparing to a game that did that/launched without one, and people explaining why they didn't like that.

Next time, don't come out like an angry rooster who sat on a corncob and actually bother reading what people wrote and asking them questions if you're confused instead of launching into an unhinged tirade to prove you're better than someone on the internet.

Nono, slidecasting is the act of sliding in the final moments of a spell cast allowing you to get some movement in without dropping your GCD or needing to resort to an instant cast. You can slide cast Flare for all it's worth, it doesn't matter if the cast is longer or shorter than the GCD. What matters is you start moving before your current cast has finished.

It used to be significantly more important before healers had their nuke cast times axed across the board and it was borderline vital to have a good feel for this when playing a turret caster like old BLM and WHM back in the day.

Even now, it's still a great mobility habit to practice even on WHM as it allows you more options in conserving Lilies if needed or simply moving at a point where you don't want to refresh Dia. Watch pretty much any replay I've ever linked and you'll see me habitually shuffling around between casts if you're still not sure of the timing.

When is the precise moment when you can cast another spell?

And yes, I (fondly?) remember slidecasting on Healers all the time, especially since only one of them had a common use button that didn't require casting (though AST always did have the shorter cast nuke, I suppose). When 6.0 hit, I was frankly shocked by the distance I could move on WHM and SCH between casts. I'm quite aware of the concept. Even if you guys want to dogpile on me for something, I WAS the one that mentioned the thing in the first place.

I also love how you guys are using any excuse to avoid the point made where that even came up (not you, Sebazy, but the others in the dogpile you joined):

That a hardcasting/GCD using Healer could very much work in the current design, even with all the movement.

Indeed, people INSISTING that BLM slidecasts supports, rather than harms, that argument.

So I just did the BLM AoE rotation on a target dummy with only 495 Spell Speed, which is awful for BLM. I was able to slidecast through every single ability, yes even High Fire/Blizzard and Flare. I could also do so with Aero/Thunder on RDM. Now they were micro-steps, especially on the aforementioned Ver spells and Flare but it's doable for the exact reason Sebazy outlined. You can "cheat" movement this way with every cast in the game because the whole functionality behind slidecasting is your ping to the server.

Perhaps you should actually practice the rotations before attempting to "school" others on it.

GOD DAMNIT, I outright mentioned this!

(actually just before, but this is latency dependent)

You can do some teeny-tiny stutter-steps around the field, if your spell has a longer cast time, which means for any PROTRACTED MOVEMENT, you're going to need to use some other resource. You can handle almost all the movement you need on WHM by moving between casts (slidecast for 0.5 sec + 1.0 sec of free walking movement), and when you can't, Swiftcast or Lilies, Dia in a pinch, Regen in some optimization cases can get you the rest of the way.

If you have a BLM that has to move 15 yalms, for a mechanic going off in 3.0 sec, you aren't getting there with slidecasting!

Holy POOPIE you guys are desperate to attack me as a person and try to discredit any thing I say so you can wave it around in the future (never admitting when you're wrong yourselves and despite me never doing this to any of you) any chance you get and to avoid actual topics being discussed as much as possible. RNGeezeus!

I feel that people sometimes confuses slidecasting with moving during the alloted time for your oGCDs.

Could be something similar to that being the source of the confusion here.

The topic was about whether a GCD based Healer Job that hardcasts heals could work in the current design. Silver-Strider was arguing it could not, I was using BLM as an example to show that hardcast GCD based Jobs can still work in the current, movement heavy design mechanics we have today. I noted that they needed tools for all the movement we have, but can do it, and that slidecasting allows for some movement, but that GCD heals with 1.5/2.0 sec CDs allow ample windows to move, and then we have Instants and Swiftcast type mechanics on top of that. BLM has some other stuff like Xenoglossy and Thundercloud as well.

The distance you can get for casting and moving on spells with cast times shorter than the GCD is pretty extensive, especially for 1.5 sec casts.

I'm not sure if people are having an issue understanding this or not, though. I do believe it's a strong desire by quite a few people to attack someone they have an irrational dislike of (as some of these people attack me in ALMOST every thread that we both post in, warranted or not), but it could be an overlap in definition.

The irony - as I said above a couple times - is that they're so zealous to attack me, they don't realize they're proving my point about GCD hardcast cure Healer Jobs being viable - the thing that was the actual topic of discussion before this tangent of "dogpile on Ren" started... <_<

Which reminds me, Squeenix could really implement a QoL feature like the WoW addon that shows the slidecast window in your castbar, depending on your latency.

There kinda is one, though it's more a work-around:

Put an Emote on your bar.

Note that the Emote will light up the moment you can slidecast.

It's actually a neat training tool I didn't know about until I already had the timing on all my spells anyway, but I've seen it suggested before and it DOES make a really good way of seeing exactly when you can start moving.

[tearagion]

lol, unreal reply, just admit you didn't know what slidecasting is, and that you have no idea about BLM

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Ignoring the fact that Medica II as of Endwalker launch also shares 2s cast time with Medica I, your wording in this post particularly implies that 'any spells with [GCD =< Cast]-cast time cannot be slidecasted', when---as couple other have mentioned, you still can.

But then you doubled back later on:

You have about 0.5 sec on a 2.5 sec cast. This is highly latency dependent and also results from the communication between sever and client. Try to slidecast with a Slipstream. You can, but you're very likely going to clip your GCD to do so. If you don't care, that's fine, you can do that. But that's what I'm referring to. You can get some motion, but you're cutting into your next CD with longer casts.

So which is it now? I'm only pointing this out because you're giving off potential indication that you may have different--or worse, misconception of what a 'slidecasting' is.

And no, Slipstream is not even close on being clip-risky when their cast time is a tad shorter than its GCD. If any, only BLMs that will actually clip simply for existing because at least half of their spells have longer cast time than its own GCD, slidecasted or not.

[Raikai]

The irony - as I said above a couple times - is that they're so zealous to attack me, they don't realize they're proving my point about GCD hardcast cure Healer Jobs being viable - the thing that was the actual topic of discussion before this tangent of "dogpile on Ren" started... <_<

On that topic, ironically... As meme as people make BLU to be, I genuinely have more fun healing with it because it comes in reverse of the mainstream healers: you'll spend a good portion of your gcds actually casting healing actions, but you'll get a bunch of strong damaging oGCDs to use between them - you still use damaging gcds, but is more or less "heal>heal>damage>heal>damage>damage>heal>etc".

The point of discontent, to me, is the lack of healing action diversity, but hopefully the update we'll get in about a month and half will improve the kit. Oh, and of course, make tanks less paper wet squishy, because it directly impacts on the healer stress.