Your Opinion on the Current State of Job Identity/Balance in 6.4?

[Renathras]

you're joking, right? do you know what slidecasting is or how it works?

Yes.

I talked about it in that post. I even MENTIONED it in that post.

Slidecasting is when the cast time of an action is less than the GCD, allowing you free movement from (actually just before, but this is latency dependent) the cast ends until the GCD has completed and you can begin casting your following spell. All spells with cast times tend to have around a 0.5 sec window (again, depending on latency) to do this in. Spells with a cast time longer than the GCD don't typically allow much room for movement before the GCD can be activated for the next spell (High Fire/Blizzard have 3 sec cast times, for example, Fire 4 has a 2.8 sec cast time, and SMN's Slipstream has a 3.0; also RDM's Thunder/Aero if you're playing extremely poorly or your latency keeps failing to register your Dualcast buff), resulting in clipping. BLM main spells take up the entire GCD, leading to them having a very narrow slidecast window vs WHM's 1.5s casts, which allow for move movement. Even if we're talking Cure 2 and Medica, WHM still has a bigger slidecasting window than BLM's very much smaller one.

Both Jobs don't handle long movements with slidecasts, though, they handle them with instant casts or a lot of stutter-stepping prepositioning, and in BLM's case, its various instant cast tools and Aetherial Manipulation.

.

Maybe don't call people out on things they can school you on.

EDIT:

Bonus knowledge, since you are ill informed and probably could use a little education on the topic:

oGCDs have an approximately 0.7 sec animation lock (again, latency comes into play), as do normal abilities, meaning between the normal ability (0.7), first weave (1.4) and second weave (2.1), you can't weave a third oGCD without clipping into the next GCD. While there are occasions to do this, it's a DPS loss when avoidable. Spells with a 1.5 sec cast time can only have a single weave (2.2 sec total), and this is also true of RDM's 1-2 of their melee combo, which have a shortened 1.5 sec GCD allowing only single weave (0.7 for the melee animation, 1.4 by the end of the weave), which isn't true of the third strike (2.2 sec, which allows two weaves leading to 2.1 if you have low latency of less than 0.1 sec); SMN also has this during Garuda (Emerald Ruin/Rite/Catastrophe also only have 1.5 sec CDs, not that you have a lot you'd be weaving there anyway).

Also note that GAP CLOSERS have slightly longer animation lock as well, briefly preventing movement in addition to the effects.

Consider yourself informed, now.

(Seriously, people need to stop rushing for a "gotcha" so hard they step into being extremely easily schooled.)

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EDIT2:

(Change: Slipstream's cast is 3.0, not 3.5)

Seriously, people need to stop rushing for a "gotcha" so hard IN GENERAL.

[tearagion]

That's not what slidecasting is, slidecasting is just exploiting latency to move before the cast is finished without cancelling it. BLM can slidecast every spell just like every other caster. If you're not casting (i.e. the 1s before your GCD cools down on a healer post-glare), you're just moving not slidecasting lol. I don't need any of your information, man who said BLM can't slidecast.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

How do people think a WHM in Shadowbringer can keep 95% or higher GCD uptime in raids when their Glare was still 2.50s and still do mechanics right when they’re not using lily spells/swiftglare/early Dia refresh?

Yep, slidecast. Lol.

[Absurdity]

GW2 doesn't have a sub fee, right? And the entire base game is free. Some might call that an "extended free trial", but before FFXIV did all the way through 3.5, "free trial" was usually "only for a few weeks" or, the more rare exceptions "only to a low-ish level and part of the base game".

GW2 mostly meets the definition of F2P in a general sense for the core game. The expansions are "buy to play", but don't require a sub fee once purchased, and aren't required for the base game.

I would still call the f2p version of the game an extended trial because it comes with several restrictions.

-You only have 2 character slots and only 3 bag slots
-You can't access the mastery system
-You can't use the marketboard (arguably one of the most important features of the game since it gives you access to exotic max level gear for cheap and allows you to jump right into pretty much all content). Or rather you can but you're only able to buy and sell a very limited selection of items.
-You can't access the guild bank
-You can't access guild buffs
-You can't send whispers to people if they're not on your map, unless you're both friends
-You can't exchange gold for gems (the store currency)
-You don't get the daily login bonus

There are probably some more restrictions that I just can't remember.

[Ivtrix]

That's not what slidecasting is, slidecasting is just exploiting latency to move before the cast is finished without cancelling it. BLM can slidecast every spell just like every other caster. If you're not casting (i.e. the 1s before your GCD cools down on a healer post-glare), you're just moving not slidecasting lol. I don't need any of your information, man who said BLM can't slidecast.

I was going to respond to his comment on my post but after seeing how clueless this guy is I think I will omit

[SieyaM]

Let me ask you this: Do you think Jobs should be expanded to have different builds (like other MMO's) or do you think Square should focus on making different jobs as uniquely distinct from one another as possible? (or both?).

As a former ESO player, I lean more towards the latter option myself. I think people underestimate just how much players value flavor in their classes, even if its just getting a unique animation or jump (like in old WoW for example).

Different builds usually leads to only one of them being optimal and then enforced by the players, which means there will be only one build you are allowed to actually use. Honestly I would rather they gave up on the idea of achieving perfect balance across jobs and just design them to be fun, it seems that the hyper focus on balanced play in the highest tier of content is what is keeping them from doing anything interesting with the jobs.

[Ivtrix]

Different builds usually leads to only one of them being optimal and then enforced by the players, which means there will be only one build you are allowed to actually use. Honestly I would rather they gave up on the idea of achieving perfect balance across jobs and just design them to be fun, it seems that the hyper focus on balanced play in the highest tier of content is what is keeping them from doing anything interesting with the jobs.

Not a terrible idea by any means but as long as SE continues to commit to making savage and ultimate content (which while they threatened that they could pull the plug let’s be real they arnt stopping anytime soon) then job balance will be of some importance as long as they push the facade of “any combo of 2 tanks 2 healers 1 melee 1 ranged 1 caster 1 flex should be able to clear the content”, as dangerously close we have been to “fuck the 5% we’re gonna drop caster/physr and bring another melee” we got to this expansion

[Deo14]

GW2 doesn't have a sub fee, right? And the entire base game is free. Some might call that an "extended free trial", but before FFXIV did all the way through 3.5, "free trial" was usually "only for a few weeks" or, the more rare exceptions "only to a low-ish level and part of the base game".

GW2 mostly meets the definition of F2P in a general sense for the core game. The expansions are "buy to play", but don't require a sub fee once purchased, and aren't required for the base game.

How much mental gymnastics do you need to justify your baseless argument? Why are you bringing FFXIV trial into this? In what world is 50$ "free"? I paid 60$ + 50$ + 30$ + 30$ throughout the years for base game and expansions if I remember correctly, so do you really want to claim that 170$ is "free"? Are you for real? How about we put FFXIV and GW2 on even ground? FFXIV with EW costs 40$ and includes 1 month sub. Let's buy 10 months of entry sub. Total price is 170$, so it's free, right? Of course it's fucking not, stop trying to be right for any cost and admit your ignorance for once. GW2 was never "free", when it released, you had to buy even base game to play at all, and even now, you can play base game but with significant limitations, even more strict than FFXIV's trial.

Btw, you shouldn't be insulting people, whether or not you think they are "speaking out of your ass". If you need to insult people, it's because you don't have the maturity to make your points without childish schadenfreude attempts.

How about you learn to make valid arguments instead of using random german words to make yourself seem smarter? If someone is acting dumb, I'll call them out, there's nothing "schadenfreude" about that.

Also, the person wasn't even talking to you with that statement.

And I wasn't talking to you with neither of my statements, yet here we are.

You do realize some people play things because they enjoy them, not because they're lazy or stupid, right?

Some people straight up swapped to SMN because it's so brain-dead. Scripe from Echo started tier as SMN so he can focus on solving mechanics and so on. There's nothing wrong with few jobs being brain-dead, but SMN has crossed the line of how much simplistic it can get and should either have it's skill ceiling elevated OR deal less damage, because there's straight up no good reason why you should pick RDM over SMN. Jobs should definitely not have different DPS depending on their difficulty, that's terrible design, but when difference between RDM and SMN is so massive, then that is the last resort. Obviously best scenario is to just make SMN's skill ceiling higher to justify it's DPS.


Regarding to your uneducated nonsense about GW2, even though you admitted that you quit at level 20ish and therefore experienced <5% of the game:

Well, to start with, it HAD no Trinity in the base game - we all know this.

So?

Secondarily, in FFXIV, you gain role abilities by level 15 on most classes (not even Jobs, CLASSES), and usually start getting your distinct role abilities quite early. WHM has Cure 1 by level 2 and Raise at level 12. Tanks get Tank Mastery at level 1 and Tank Stance at level 10. Group content also starts at level 10 with guildheists or level 15 with dungeons. WoW is similar, with Spec choice now at level 10 (at least, when I last played in Legion) and even before then, hybrid classes have their first heal before then. The first dungeon is probably down in that range as well.

Trinity games you can tell by picking up the game and leveling for less than half an hour, and are often in a dungeon within 2 hours of picking up the game.

Cool, but GW2 is not FFXIV. I don't know whether you expect every game to be carbon copy of each other or what. If you wanted holy trinity, then what did you expect from MMORPG most known for the anti-trinity design?

GW2 nowadays has holy trinity, but you really only need to play with trinity in raids, strikes and T4 fractals with challenge mode active. All of that is high end combat content, if you want to play casually, you don't even need to know what holy trinity is. However, only elite specializations, which are locked behind level 80, are really focused on trinity, so if you play guardian, you will be just regular DPS, with slightly more focus on heals and protection, but at level 80 and after meeting all requirements, you can pick Firebrand specialization to become healer/support. Funnily enough, if you want to be condi DPS, you use the same Firebrand specialization, just with different trees, weapons and stats.

And while I'm sure if I poked and prodded at GW2, it would have something enjoyable enough to play. The point is, it didn't for me from the jump. All games have to have a hook. You can't expect players to force themselves to like your game until they find something they like. If they don't like it, they move on.

If you don't like the game and didn't even invest few hours, then stop acting like you're some veteran who knows everything about the game. Just be quiet instead of spewing uneducated nonsense, you're just making a fool of yourself. And if you want to claim that initial experience should hook players, then I need to remind you that we're on FFXIV forums, game popular for having first ~50 hours absolutely miserable. I gave this game first try in ~2014, I hated it, but I didn't spew nonsense on gaming forums, based on my very limited experience. You should try that too.

Again, spicy/bland dishes or different types of music: You enjoy GW2, and that's great.

I did not enjoy GW2, largely because it was more an ARPG and didn't have a Trinity system in the base game (reflected in the first hours of gameplay on a new character) at all, and was, in fact, explicitly designed originally to PREVENT one.

So why do you have the need to discuss the game when you know nothing about it? Why did you even start playing the game known for being anti-trinity, when you want trinity?

[Sebazy]

Yes.

I talked about it in that post. I even MENTIONED it in that post.

Slidecasting is when the cast time of an action is less than the GCD, allowing you free movement from (actually just before, but this is latency dependent) the cast ends until the GCD has completed and you can begin casting your following spell.

Nono, slidecasting is the act of sliding in the final moments of a spell cast allowing you to get some movement in without dropping your GCD or needing to resort to an instant cast. You can slide cast Flare for all it's worth, it doesn't matter if the cast is longer or shorter than the GCD. What matters is you start moving before your current cast has finished.

It used to be significantly more important before healers had their nuke cast times axed across the board and it was borderline vital to have a good feel for this when playing a turret caster like old BLM and WHM back in the day.

Even now, it's still a great mobility habit to practice even on WHM as it allows you more options in conserving Lilies if needed or simply moving at a point where you don't want to refresh Dia. Watch pretty much any replay I've ever linked and you'll see me habitually shuffling around between casts if you're still not sure of the timing.

[Raikai]

Nono, slidecasting is the act of sliding in the final moments of a spell cast allowing you to get some movement in without dropping your GCD or needing to resort to an instant cast. You can slide cast Flare for all it's worth, it doesn't matter if the cast is longer or shorter than the GCD. What matters is you start moving before your current cast has finished.

It used to be significantly more important before healers had their nuke cast times axed across the board and it was borderline vital to have a good feel for this when playing a turret caster like old BLM and WHM back in the day.

Even now, it's still a great mobility habit to practice even on WHM as it allows you more options in conserving Lilies if needed or simply moving at a point where you don't want to refresh Dia. Watch pretty much any replay I've ever linked and you'll see me habitually shuffling around between casts if you're still not sure of the timing.

I feel that people sometimes confuses slidecasting with moving during the alloted time for your oGCDs. A BLM can move in both situations, second one is easier because you don't have that 'invisible gauge' to get a hang of.

Which reminds me, Squeenix could really implement a QoL feature like the WoW addon that shows the slidecast window in your castbar, depending on your latency.