Your Opinion on the Current State of Job Identity/Balance in 6.4?

[Raikai]

Nono, slidecasting is the act of sliding in the final moments of a spell cast allowing you to get some movement in without dropping your GCD or needing to resort to an instant cast. You can slide cast Flare for all it's worth, it doesn't matter if the cast is longer or shorter than the GCD. What matters is you start moving before your current cast has finished.

It used to be significantly more important before healers had their nuke cast times axed across the board and it was borderline vital to have a good feel for this when playing a turret caster like old BLM and WHM back in the day.

Even now, it's still a great mobility habit to practice even on WHM as it allows you more options in conserving Lilies if needed or simply moving at a point where you don't want to refresh Dia. Watch pretty much any replay I've ever linked and you'll see me habitually shuffling around between casts if you're still not sure of the timing.

I feel that people sometimes confuses slidecasting with moving during the alloted time for your oGCDs. A BLM can move in both situations, second one is easier because you don't have that 'invisible gauge' to get a hang of.

Which reminds me, Squeenix could really implement a QoL feature like the WoW addon that shows the slidecast window in your castbar, depending on your latency.

[Absurdity]

Which reminds me, Squeenix could really implement a QoL feature like the WoW addon that shows the slidecast window in your castbar, depending on your latency.

The big question is whether or not slidecasting is even intentional or simply a side effect of the jank netcoding.

For all we know they could overhaul the netcode to recognize movement instantly (or as instantly as possible when taking latency into account) and our ability to slidecast would suddenly be severely limited.

[Ivtrix]

The big question is whether or not slidecasting is even intentional or simply a side effect of the jank netcoding.

For all we know they could overhaul the netcode to recognize movement instantly (or as instantly as possible when taking latency into account) and our ability to slidecast would suddenly be severely limited.

Def jank net coding

I view it the same as tick manipulation in OSRS. Not intended, but it’s been around so long it’s essentially a core feature

[Tint]

Which reminds me, Squeenix could really implement a QoL feature like the WoW addon that shows the slidecast window in your castbar, depending on your latency.

I read somewhere that you can place an emote on the hotbar and when it is no longer greyed out it is safe to move.

[Renathras]

...man who said BLM can't slidecast.

This is why people on the internet suck:

You accuse someone of saying something they didn't say.
Prance around about being wrong.
Prance around about lying.
And idiots support you for being wrong and lying.

Thank god the game itself isn't as bad as the forum community is.

How do people think a WHM in Shadowbringer can keep 95% or higher GCD uptime in raids when their Glare was still 2.50s and still do mechanics right when they’re not using lily spells/swiftglare/early Dia refresh?

Yep, slidecast. Lol.

(actually just before, but this is latency dependent)

You have about 0.5 sec on a 2.5 sec cast. This is highly latency dependent and also results from the communication between sever and client. Try to slidecast with a Slipstream. You can, but you're very likely going to clip your GCD to do so. If you don't care, that's fine, you can do that. But that's what I'm referring to. You can get some motion, but you're cutting into your next CD with longer casts.

It is a pretty minimal DPS loss, so if you want to eat it, there's really nothing wrong with that.

I can get ~1 yalm on BLM after a Blizzard 3 cast from the time my emote lights up (allowing slidecast) until the GCD is finished and I can startcasting the next Blizzard 3. On the other hand, I can get around 7 on WHM after Glare (1.5 sec), or around 4 after Medica (2 sec).

Also, for the record: This was LITERALLY MY ARGUMENT:

If the argument was - and it was - that fights are too movement oriented to use GCD heals, then they'd also be too movement oriented to use GCD damage casts. And while BLM has insane movement if prepped for it and rolling through their various movement tools, it's not INFINITE. BLM isn't SMN. Meaning if BLM can get away with it in current content, so can Healers.

ALL OF YOU attacking me over this are just PROVING THE INITIAL POINT I MADE CORRECT. You just are so adamant about counter-arguing me at every turn, you didn't bother to realize it.

(Seriously, people need to stop rushing for a "gotcha" so hard they step into being extremely easily schooled.)

You guys REALLY need to stop being dicks for dogpile points.

How much mental gymnastics...

Holy angry A-hole, Batman!

Good god, who peed in your cornflakes? o.O

So?

This is the problem with your entire post:

You didn't bother to even understand what was being said before responding in angrybird mode.

"So" is that I said why I don't like a thing, a person told me why that person liked the thing/tried to talk around/talk me into liking that thing, and I explained why I don't like the thing. That's the "So".

Going on an unhinged, insult laden tirade doesn't make someone agree with you. I still don't like GW2 and like FFXIV and do so because, in part, FFXIV has a Trinity system, from the ground up, was built around it, and still uses it. You calling me names and insulting me doesn't make me more likely to enjoy the thing you enjoy that I don't enjoy. And, frankly, it's kind of stupid that you even think it will OR are trying to change someone else's preferences in the first place.

I never said I was "some veteran", nor did I claim to be an expert on the game. The topic - had you bothered to read and understand it before replying like an angry Twitterer discovering Reddit for the first time from his mother's basement - was about removing or dampening the Trinity from FFXIV, why that might be a good idea, comparing to a game that did that/launched without one, and people explaining why they didn't like that.

Next time, don't come out like an angry rooster who sat on a corncob and actually bother reading what people wrote and asking them questions if you're confused instead of launching into an unhinged tirade to prove you're better than someone on the internet.

Nono, slidecasting is the act of sliding in the final moments of a spell cast allowing you to get some movement in without dropping your GCD or needing to resort to an instant cast. You can slide cast Flare for all it's worth, it doesn't matter if the cast is longer or shorter than the GCD. What matters is you start moving before your current cast has finished.

It used to be significantly more important before healers had their nuke cast times axed across the board and it was borderline vital to have a good feel for this when playing a turret caster like old BLM and WHM back in the day.

Even now, it's still a great mobility habit to practice even on WHM as it allows you more options in conserving Lilies if needed or simply moving at a point where you don't want to refresh Dia. Watch pretty much any replay I've ever linked and you'll see me habitually shuffling around between casts if you're still not sure of the timing.

When is the precise moment when you can cast another spell?

And yes, I (fondly?) remember slidecasting on Healers all the time, especially since only one of them had a common use button that didn't require casting (though AST always did have the shorter cast nuke, I suppose). When 6.0 hit, I was frankly shocked by the distance I could move on WHM and SCH between casts. I'm quite aware of the concept. Even if you guys want to dogpile on me for something, I WAS the one that mentioned the thing in the first place.

I also love how you guys are using any excuse to avoid the point made where that even came up (not you, Sebazy, but the others in the dogpile you joined):

That a hardcasting/GCD using Healer could very much work in the current design, even with all the movement.

Indeed, people INSISTING that BLM slidecasts supports, rather than harms, that argument.

So I just did the BLM AoE rotation on a target dummy with only 495 Spell Speed, which is awful for BLM. I was able to slidecast through every single ability, yes even High Fire/Blizzard and Flare. I could also do so with Aero/Thunder on RDM. Now they were micro-steps, especially on the aforementioned Ver spells and Flare but it's doable for the exact reason Sebazy outlined. You can "cheat" movement this way with every cast in the game because the whole functionality behind slidecasting is your ping to the server.

Perhaps you should actually practice the rotations before attempting to "school" others on it.

GOD DAMNIT, I outright mentioned this!

(actually just before, but this is latency dependent)

You can do some teeny-tiny stutter-steps around the field, if your spell has a longer cast time, which means for any PROTRACTED MOVEMENT, you're going to need to use some other resource. You can handle almost all the movement you need on WHM by moving between casts (slidecast for 0.5 sec + 1.0 sec of free walking movement), and when you can't, Swiftcast or Lilies, Dia in a pinch, Regen in some optimization cases can get you the rest of the way.

If you have a BLM that has to move 15 yalms, for a mechanic going off in 3.0 sec, you aren't getting there with slidecasting!

Holy POOPIE you guys are desperate to attack me as a person and try to discredit any thing I say so you can wave it around in the future (never admitting when you're wrong yourselves and despite me never doing this to any of you) any chance you get and to avoid actual topics being discussed as much as possible. RNGeezeus!

I feel that people sometimes confuses slidecasting with moving during the alloted time for your oGCDs.

Could be something similar to that being the source of the confusion here.

The topic was about whether a GCD based Healer Job that hardcasts heals could work in the current design. Silver-Strider was arguing it could not, I was using BLM as an example to show that hardcast GCD based Jobs can still work in the current, movement heavy design mechanics we have today. I noted that they needed tools for all the movement we have, but can do it, and that slidecasting allows for some movement, but that GCD heals with 1.5/2.0 sec CDs allow ample windows to move, and then we have Instants and Swiftcast type mechanics on top of that. BLM has some other stuff like Xenoglossy and Thundercloud as well.

The distance you can get for casting and moving on spells with cast times shorter than the GCD is pretty extensive, especially for 1.5 sec casts.

I'm not sure if people are having an issue understanding this or not, though. I do believe it's a strong desire by quite a few people to attack someone they have an irrational dislike of (as some of these people attack me in ALMOST every thread that we both post in, warranted or not), but it could be an overlap in definition.

The irony - as I said above a couple times - is that they're so zealous to attack me, they don't realize they're proving my point about GCD hardcast cure Healer Jobs being viable - the thing that was the actual topic of discussion before this tangent of "dogpile on Ren" started... <_<

Which reminds me, Squeenix could really implement a QoL feature like the WoW addon that shows the slidecast window in your castbar, depending on your latency.

There kinda is one, though it's more a work-around:

Put an Emote on your bar.

Note that the Emote will light up the moment you can slidecast.

It's actually a neat training tool I didn't know about until I already had the timing on all my spells anyway, but I've seen it suggested before and it DOES make a really good way of seeing exactly when you can start moving.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Ignoring the fact that Medica II as of Endwalker launch also shares 2s cast time with Medica I, your wording in this post particularly implies that 'any spells with [GCD =< Cast]-cast time cannot be slidecasted', when---as couple other have mentioned, you still can.

But then you doubled back later on:

You have about 0.5 sec on a 2.5 sec cast. This is highly latency dependent and also results from the communication between sever and client. Try to slidecast with a Slipstream. You can, but you're very likely going to clip your GCD to do so. If you don't care, that's fine, you can do that. But that's what I'm referring to. You can get some motion, but you're cutting into your next CD with longer casts.

So which is it now? I'm only pointing this out because you're giving off potential indication that you may have different--or worse, misconception of what a 'slidecasting' is.

And no, Slipstream is not even close on being clip-risky when their cast time is a tad shorter than its GCD. If any, only BLMs that will actually clip simply for existing because at least half of their spells have longer cast time than its own GCD, slidecasted or not.

[Raikai]

The irony - as I said above a couple times - is that they're so zealous to attack me, they don't realize they're proving my point about GCD hardcast cure Healer Jobs being viable - the thing that was the actual topic of discussion before this tangent of "dogpile on Ren" started... <_<

On that topic, ironically... As meme as people make BLU to be, I genuinely have more fun healing with it because it comes in reverse of the mainstream healers: you'll spend a good portion of your gcds actually casting healing actions, but you'll get a bunch of strong damaging oGCDs to use between them - you still use damaging gcds, but is more or less "heal>heal>damage>heal>damage>damage>heal>etc".

The point of discontent, to me, is the lack of healing action diversity, but hopefully the update we'll get in about a month and half will improve the kit. Oh, and of course, make tanks less paper wet squishy, because it directly impacts on the healer stress.

[ForteNightshade]

You can do some teeny-tiny stutter-steps around the field, if your spell has a longer cast time, which means for any PROTRACTED MOVEMENT, you're going to need to use some other resource. You can handle almost all the movement you need on WHM by moving between casts (slidecast for 0.5 sec + 1.0 sec of free walking movement), and when you can't, Swiftcast or Lilies, Dia in a pinch, Regen in some optimization cases can get you the rest of the way.

If you have a BLM that has to move 15 yalms, for a mechanic going off in 3.0 sec, you aren't getting there with slidecasting!

You neglected the part of your quote where you said: "Spells with a cast time longer than the GCD don't typically allow this" and proceeded to list off the very spells I demonstrated do allow for slide casting. The whole point of my response to you is the claim Black Mage and Red Mage can't slidecast with those specific spells when they absolutely can. You've now moved the goalpost to try and argue that isn't actual slidecasting and what you actually meant was what healers do with their nuke. Both are examples of slide casting.

As for this whole "omg, I'm being attacked!!!!" nonsense. I likely wouldn't have even responded had you not so smugly typed what I quoted; that "Maybe don't call people out on things they can school you on."

Maybe don't throw stones in that glass house of yours.

[Renathras]

HB to try and get the topic back on the topic.

I likely wouldn't have even responded had you not so smugly typed what I quoted; that "Maybe don't call people out on things they can school you on."

You mean my reply to someone who was trying to be a dick? (Which wasn't, btw, even you)

Spare me. All you had to do was ask a question instead of joining in the hate train. It's not hard, I do it all the time when I read something someone says and think "Wait, that's not quite right. Did they mean...?" instead of trying to pounce on them and contributing to a lynch mob.

You left off the part where I said that SPELLS WITH A CAST TIME (which includes ones longer than the GCD) allow about a 0.5 second window.

MIGHT that be significant? Considering that's what, even by the narrower definition, slidecasting IS?

EDIT:

Ah, another sample of...
Must be a day that ends in Y.

Oh look, Semi being her normal cheery self. There's a small part of me that wonders if you're related to Titanmen. I know you aren't an alt of his because your post style, but good god you are vindictive because I called you out once for being selfish and hit too close to home, so you can (rarely) pretty much never let it go.

It must be a day ending in Y, as you do never disappoint at your eagerness to join dogpiles on people. It's the fastest way to prove there's an unfair dogpile happening, in fact - if Semi has shown up to join it.

lol, unreal reply, just admit you didn't know what slidecasting is, and that you have no idea about BLM

rofl! I have no intention to lie to aid your ego, my dear troll. Looks like you want to compete with Titanmen for my affection, but he won't propose. Too shy, I suppose. Perhaps you will?
You'll just have to get over being wrong.

On that topic, ironically... As meme as people make BLU to be, I genuinely have more fun healing with it because it comes in reverse of the mainstream healers: you'll spend a good portion of your gcds actually casting healing actions, but you'll get a bunch of strong damaging oGCDs to use between them - you still use damaging gcds, but is more or less "heal>heal>damage>heal>damage>damage>heal>etc".

The point of discontent, to me, is the lack of healing action diversity, but hopefully the update we'll get in about a month and half will improve the kit. Oh, and of course, make tanks less paper wet squishy, because it directly impacts on the healer stress.

Hey, someone actually interested in discussing the topic rather than being a member of the mob. Thanks for being a decent person and actually doing that.

BLU is definitely a different take on it. I kinda wish they'd have BLU available for general content. Won't ever happen, but its take on Healing is certainly distinct from the other Healers, which is something the game needs more of, I think. More diversity of playstyles within the existing roles. And BLU makes it work pretty well with its own unique flavor that is VERY distinct from the other Healers at present.

So which is it now?

Yes or no answers, please:

1) Do you have "about 0.5 sec on a 2.5 sec cast", latency dependent, to move on as a spell completes, or no?
(You might be on about other spells having a similar time, but this also depends on the GCD triggered by the spell, the player's latency, and in any case, doesn't make the above statement untrue.)

2) Can you move significantly farther with a 1.5 or 2.0 sec cast spell without clipping your GCD than with a 2.8 or 3.0 sec cast spell, or no?
(Though there are some weird exceptions to things that alter the GCD itself that they specifically trigger, like RDM's Enchanted melee strikes, which don't even all have the same one as I mentioned before - 1.5, 1.5, 2.2 - or SMN having 1.5, 2.5, 3.0, and 3.5 depending on which phase and which spell...)

3) Is moving in the window between that point (the point you can move without canceling your spell cast, even before the animation goes off) and the next GCD starting slidecasting, or is it not?
(This honestly may be the point of conflict since some people measure slidecasting from the point you can move up until the GCD allows another cast and - apparently - some people only include the half-second and consider the rest of the movement period...something else. Regardless, the whole of that period is what's used for repositioning without losing DPS/clipping the GCD. Which was the entire point of the prior discussion before it was so rudely derailed.)

4) Can BLM function, as a GCD harcasting class, within the current encounter design model that requires high mobility, or is it currently incapable of engaging functionally in current designed content?

5) Given (4), does it stand to reason that a Healer that also used hardcasts and GCD healing could fit within the same mobility model?
(Either with extra movement tools, like BLM has - regardless of what anyone wants to define terms as or how narrowly, BLM does have tools that allow movement, and I'm not sure why anyone would contest a point so factual - or with shorter cast times, which also allow more movement, or a combination of both.)

Note that (5) is the actual topic of discussion before this tangent.

(You're right about Medica 2, though. I guess Holy IS the only WHM spell left that takes up the entire GCD at this point.)

.

Anyway, the topic is what it was, but if no one wants to talk about it, then no point continuing.

[Sebazy]

(You're right about Medica 2, though. I guess Holy IS the only WHM spell left that takes up the entire GCD at this point.)

I forgot to mention it yesterday evening, but Raise is probably a better example.

You've probably had those moments where you're hard casting a raise, a mechanic ground marker targets you but you manage to successfully squeeze out the raise whilst dodging the marker before the raise cast ends? That's slidecasting in it's purest form.

To answer your questions at Rein:

1) Yes for the most part. When the EU servers switched location it changed the timing we needed to use to slide cast, it didn't make as big a difference to the distance we could move mid cast as you might expect, but it did move the window enough to need to adjust a little.

2) Of course, with 1 second cast abilities you barely have to stop moving once you get it down. The window for movement is longer, but I'll also argue that the act of slidecasting primarily describes the point in time at which you are moving whilst you still have a cast bar going, thus slide-casting. Technically, you are not casting whilst moving between casts whilst the GCD is still ticking over.

3) Oop, answered in the above. To repeat. No, slide casting refers to the act of moving whilst you have a cast bar up without actually interrupting or dropping the cast. Moving between casts whilst the GCD is on cooldown isn't technically slide casting, rather that is moving between casts. The goal of slidecasting is to increase the amount of movement you have whilst casting irrespective of the cast time vs GCD. You can slide cast Esuna, Holy or Raise. I guess this is confusing because modern short Glare etc cast times effectively just have the old slide cast window baked in, but that doesn't mean you can't use the old methods to increase that movement window further. It's still a relevant habit, just not quite as critical as it used to be.

4) Of course, watch a replay of a top level BLM playing and you'll see them using slidecasting to adjust their position plenty.

5) I mean BLM has a LOT of mobility tools now, I'd be all for getting a slice of that on healers but I suspect SE gave us shorter cast glares so they wouldn't have to.

As an example, that random Euphrosyne clip I linked a while ago:

https://youtu.be/6usab1LjtYE?t=44

@45 seconds in, shuffling around slidecasting, not entirely sure why, probably out of boredom tbh